A new set of thoughts on how to bring Midgard back

[Davin]

Ok, my bad.  My assumption was that you'd want to interact with other human players from the start.  I can open up the whole continent and give you "hubs" or other preferred locations to start with where you're (typically) the only players around.

[DreamWeaver]

Now on startup of the game....

1st - All cities will be converted to mostly Independent declared and you will make a number of them declared for each faction. Do you have any idea how many will be declare for each faction as of yet?

2nd - You stated that you were going to move the cities around a little, changing locations and maybe map details as well

3rd- You stated that you were going to downgrade all cities and make them little more than ruins, with almost wiping out all defences and city buildings along with factional offices / temples in them as well too. I also assume that you will get rid of most land upgrades and roads around them too. Also downgrading the port sizes and etc.

4th - You stated that you will do away with Imperial Perservs and  Forts, and make them all normal cities. Also your doing away with 25.0 walls/towers or 10.0 walls/towers and reduce them to '0' like the rest of Midgard cities

5th - Wipe out all factional regiments and make them set up after the game starts. Any cities should not have any regiments at all. All these type of assets should be built after the game starts.

6th - On game start assign one Declared city to each factional senior if they want to be a city leader. This is so they can start to build up that city so that that city can become a future starting hub for that faction's regiments and clans.

[DreamWeaver]

Ok, my bad.  My assumption was that you'd want to interact with other human players from the start.  I can open up the whole continent and give you "hubs" or other preferred locations to start with where you're (typically) the only players around.

What me alone...'Never' I always have lots of friends to join me in the world of Midgard as you will learn going forward Davin!

[Davin]

Mostly that sounds right.

1) I'll have to look at the map more closely to see, but probably 1 or 2 per faction sounds reasonable for now.

2) Yep - I'd like to make some (minor) changes to give people a reason to explore, at least.

3) I don't know if I'd call them ruins, but I'd like to see at least very small populations with little infrastructure and in need of repair and growth (which I'm sure you'll be happy to help with).  Defenses should be minimal at best, and few land improvements (and those primarily for food).  I expect roads will generally be little more than rough cart paths and will need to be rebuilt into something more useful for trade.

4) I would REALLY like to get rid of the big Imp preserves/defenses, to make them like other factions, but I've been hearing complaints about that.  I think this needs more discussion.

5) Agreed

6) I don't see any problem with having starting seniors running a few cities here and there to begin with.

[Davin]

What me alone...'Never' I always have lots of friends to join me in the world of Midgard as you will learn going forward Davin!

Sure - I just didn't expect the player population to grow much in the beginning, and many of those may want their own areas.  After all, we've got lots of room to play in.

[DreamWeaver]

Mostly that sounds right.

Originally I said the following:

4th - You stated that you will do away with Imperial Preserves and  Forts, and make them all normal cities. Also your doing away with 25.0 walls/towers or 10.0 walls/towers and reduce them to '0' like the rest of Midgard cities

Your answer:

4) I would REALLY like to get rid of the big Imp preserves/defenses, to make them like other factions, but I've been hearing complaints about that.  I think this needs more discussion.

Honestly publically we have only seen comments like:

- Make all Imperial pop centers just like cities

- Do away with the Preserves and Forts

-Get rid of the 25.0 Walls/Towers that Zan gave them to protect them, when you think about 10.0 Walls/Towers being the Great Wall of China then what is a 25.0 Wall/Tower that is 2.5 times larger? A bit excessive if you ask me.  Now I would be willing to say let the Imperial Cities a little larger in size, and set they walls at 2.0  and towers at 3.0 to begin with. Maybe make their size like 15k+, that I would feel is ok. Also since they are the Big Box faction give them 5 cities to start.

- Also NO REGIMENTS at all...make them be created in game over time.

[Davin]

Honestly publically we have only seen comments like:

- Make all Imperial pop centers just like cities

- Do away with the Preserves and Forts

-Get rid of the 25.0 Walls/Towers that Zan gave them to protect them, when you think about 10.0 Walls/Towers being the Great Wall of China then what is a 25.0 Wall/Tower that is 2.5 times larger? A bit excessive if you ask me.  Now I would be willing to say let the Imperial Cities a little larger in size, and set they walls at 2.0  and towers at 3.0 to begin with. Maybe make their size like 15k+, that I would feel is ok. Also since they are the Big Box faction give them 5 cities to start.

What about Steve's comments?

Personally I do not like the idea of re-making the Imperials and here is why.   They make for the ultimate invaders to the land and create a foe that will take everything and everyone to defeat.  Especially if they are set up to send resources back to the Imperial Homeland which I would make as a closed area of the game.  This would make them a potential problem for every faction no matter what there goal is, as they would be taking resources away from the land.  So even religions that might want to avoid conflict would at least avoid assisting them because they are taking needed resources away from this area.  This makes for a very valid enemy for most other factions.  I would see both the Boda and the Roder as highly opposed to them and keeping them in check at all cost.

While everyone suffered leave the Imperials as the big major enemy invaders of this land.   They are taking resources from this vital land and sending it back to the Homeland only further upsetting people in this land.  This keeps things as a continuing story of midgard not an alternate world of midgard.  If your going to completely redesign the world and the history then simply build a completely new world and call it something new do not say your bringing midgard back.  Minor modifications are one thing but completely redoing things leaves no value in calling it midgard.

[DreamWeaver]

Well how about sizing them down from the 25.0 walls and towers. If 10.0 is the cap them don't make them SUPER Mega structures like that. I feel they should be grossly reduced maybe 4.0 walls and 5.0 towers then. No regiments as well too.

Oliver wanted them to be cities as well and possibly open to all others.

[FutureSojourner]

Well how about sizing them down from the 25.0 walls and towers. If 10.0 is the cap them don't make them SUPER Mega structures like that. I feel they should be grossly reduced maybe 4.0 walls and 5.0 towers then. No regiments as well too.

Oliver wanted them to be cities as well and possibly open to all others.

I disagree with Steve.  I would like to see the Imperials forced to work with others, there can still be suspicion of "do we trust the Imperials" but take them off of their pedestal.  I like the idea of Imperial Preserves, make them tough, but not 25 walls.  Remove their regiments but give them VERY strong preserves.  Open up a district of the preserve to other factional offices.  Cut them off from the Homeworld -- I would like to see it have been destroyed.  

I agree with Penn, take the walls down to 10.  If there are no regiments it will be next to impossible to take a preserve for a very long time.  Force the Imperials to trade and work with others.  The game is the best when it is a political game -- in my opinion.  The Imperials are modeled after Rome and Rome assimilated everything so it would make sense that the Imps would allow factional offices other than their own but also that they would want their offices everywhere too!  Turn the Imps into a POLITICAL faction instead of a warlike faction.

[DreamWeaver]

Well how about sizing them down from the 25.0 walls and towers. If 10.0 is the cap them don't make them SUPER Mega structures like that. I feel they should be grossly reduced maybe 4.0 walls and 5.0 towers then. No regiments as well too.

Oliver wanted them to be cities as well and possibly open to all others.

I disagree with Steve.  I would like to see the Imperials forced to work with others, there can still be suspicion of "do we trust the Imperials" but take them off of their pedestal.  I like the idea of Imperial Preserves, make them tough, but not 25 walls.  Remove their regiments but give them VERY strong preserves.  Open up a district of the preserve to other factional offices.  Cut them off from the Homeworld -- I would like to see it have been destroyed.  

I agree with Penn, take the walls down to 10.  If there are no regiments it will be next to impossible to take a preserve for a very long time.  Force the Imperials to trade and work with others.  The game is the best when it is a political game -- in my opinion.  The Imperials are modeled after Rome and Rome assimilated everything so it would make sense that the Imps would allow factional offices other than their own but also that they would want their offices everywhere too!  Turn the Imps into a POLITICAL faction instead of a warlike faction.

OK  lets look at the details about Preserves...they were 25. Walls & Towers making them impossible to siege.

Next a cities market is based off of the amount of population that is inside of the city. Most normal cities are around 10,000 protected pop, well the Preserves well 200.000+ pop which means their market would be 20x larger in size and what one could buy on it or from it. 

Next there were (3) Preserves if I remember correctly, then there were a bunch of Forts that were 10.0 Walls and 10.0 Towers.  Both the Preserves and Forts were only open to just open to Imperials only too. On top of that they also had a couple of normal Imperial cities too.

So now your stating that all the other factions you plan to give them (1-2) cities each and they will have almost nothing in defenses, and they will be  like under 7,000 pop that are open to all. Now tell me how is THAT fare?

Even ONE Preserve greatly over balances that faction giving them an extreme unfair balance.  I say cut them back, and give them the need to build up like the rest of us. With the regiments gone at the beginning of the game for everyone, my guess tof each, don't give them any more than that as well. Make the Imperial players have to build all that as well too, like the rest of us will need to do in game.hat they will be building them like crazy but they once again will have the ability to be able to do it while others will not.

Here is what I feel could be fair at game start for the Imperials:

1st - Take away all Forts and Cities

2nd - Give them the Preserves, but only give them (3-4), and make the populations more realistic.  Instead of making them 200,000+, do something like 30,000 + 10k to 30k. During the mid-16th century, when the Renaissance slowly erased the Middle Ages, London was home to more than 100,000 inhabitants. The Preserves are NOT a capitol of a country so I think giving the Imperials (4) cities with each population between 40,000 to 60,000 is more than fare.

3rd - Set the defenses at 4.0 Walls, and 5.0 Towers and NO OTHER defenses built. Make them get the resources and mancycles to  build the rest up in game like the rest of us. Make them spend the money to play the turns, to do the work in game.

4th - Since every other city will have maybe at best 1-2 city buildings in each of the building types, make the Imperials have the same and make them spend the time, resources, and paid turns to build up these super cities as well.

5th - Take away all regiments and make everyone build them from scratch, thus they will need to assign troops to defend the cities and etc. Let the Imperial players themselves do it in game work to defend these super bread baskets.

Look the Imperials will still be a Big Box faction and NO one will be able to take that away from them.  Cut them off from the Homeland, call it a plague or maybe when the Meteor hit it was actually a number of strikes and maybe the Imperial Homeland took a direct hit and is destroyed. Have the Imperials of Midgard cut off and lost all contact with Imperial home.