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08-30-2011, 03:56 AM
(This post was last modified: 03-04-2017, 09:06 PM by GrimFinger.)
One of the things that stands out to me, during my recent treks through the pages of back issues of play by mail magazines of old, is that one of the driving forces of the PBM genre was strong intellect. Simply put, there were some very smart cookies that injected life into the genre that was play by mail - on both the design side and on the player side.
Reading a Moderator Bio about Kathleen Seymour and Donald Redick of Fractal Dimensions is what got me to thinking about the degree of intellectual sophistication that went into designing, moderating, and yes, playing PBM games.
While many PBM games never lived up to the hype of those who designed them, or of those who advertised them, even still, many (if not most) of them were probably more complex than their critics - and many of their fans - gave them credit for.
I can't recall how many hours went into designing my PBM game, and it wasn't even a programmed affair. My game wasn't driven so much by strong intellect as it was by strong desire, though.
A lot of games that I have tried online in succeeding years have probably been at least as competently programmed as their PBM predecessors were years before, but they don't often strike me as being particularly sophisticated. My game wasn't really sophisticated, so it is not as though I am predisposed in favor of sophistication, per se.
The play by mail genre went through its Wild West stage, I suppose, as did various electronic mediums, many years later. Through time, mediums have a way of losing their frontier quality, it seems. Normalcy sets in, and complacency along with it.
Play by mail companies used to be well springs of innovation. They would churn out new games, and the world was young. It was that innovation, that sense of all kinds of PBM games everywhere that one looked, no matter which way that one turned, that helped to fire the imaginations of the PBM generation. Maybe PBM companies simply ran into a wall. Had they reached the end of their imaginations? Was the well spring of ideas now run dry?
In the March/April 1994 issue of Paper Mayhem magazine, Issue # 65, in his "Where We're Heading" column, editor David Webber stated that, after compiling Paper Mayhem's demographics, he knew that more and more PBMers were playing fewer and fewer PBM games.
Fast forward to Issue # 87, the November/December 1997 issue of the same magazine, and in the same column, we find David lamenting that he was hearing less and less from PBM companies. Shame on them! If anyone ever fought the good fight, it was David Webber. I never really knew him, but I miss him an awful lot, these days.
Fast forward again to the current era. Several PBM game designers of vintage era PBM games are trying to extend their legacy into a new era of gaming. All of them that are programmers are probably better programmers, now, than they were back then. But, I can't help but to wonder which of them will succeed and which of them will fail. I don't wish failure on any of them, but wishes, alone, won't make any of them succeed, and experience teaches that at least some of their efforts will end in failure.
That's just how the cookie crumbles.
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I think what we see are economics and evolution. When PBM started, pretty much everyone thought they could make lot of money programming a game and running it. Ignoring the fact that designing for interesting and balanced gameplay itself is more complex than most people think, the economics of PBM were terrible. Combine bad games with limited economic benefit and we see some of the ebb and flow of games and players.
Evolution rears its ugly head in the form of the dreaded internet, raising number of choices for games and adding immediate gratification for the players, and a huge market for the moderators. Personally I got a small thrill out of anticipating when games would arrive. I could predict turnaround times for different games and moderators, and started to think I could tell how long it would take Flying Buffalo to run different Starweb games based on different cycles with their internal workloads. It was a game unto itself. Granted, there is something a little weird there, but todays game player would laugh if you told him it would take 2 weeks to tell if he survived a battle.
Now comes smartphones. All the would be PBM moderators are trying to come up with the next Angry Birds (note - never tried it, never will, or any smartphone game for that matter).
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I agree with Vanolleten. Everything has to be super-fast today, both to keep the interest of players and to make it possible for GMs to make a living, however modest. I have never enjoyed PBM that is based on fast turnaround, nor games that have a limited number of simple closed-ended choices in a system of short-deadline turns that if you are late ends your game because you are weak and attacked. Nor have I ever been interested in "winning", or coming high on the list of players in terms of "points" or indeed in terms of anything.
My ideal game is one where I can be left alone to cultivate my position in a rich in-depth environment, with open-ended choices to make. I also like to take my time and relish my turns, so that I can consider a range of alternative responses to any situation. So the turns should have no deadlines. It also gives me the basic environment where it is possible "sub-create" a gaming position. I like to envisage my environment and also to write about it. Finally, to work in a game scenario where I can't be attacked and overwhelmed, if necessary in a permanent "King's Peace".
Today it is unrealistic to expect all this from PBM. The alternatives are solo gaming or mass online games in which there is a decent chance of not being knocked out by players or creatures.
Of course, if someone does start a PBM which manages to make this possible, I will seriously consider playing.
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(08-30-2011, 08:41 PM)vanollefen Wrote: Now comes smartphones. All the would be PBM moderators are trying to come up with the next Angry Birds (note - never tried it, never will, or any smartphone game for that matter).
These modern day communicator devices, to borrow a term from the old Star Trek television series, are workhorses of convenience, to be certain. I went back to using my old cell phone, and gave up the one that I had that had touch screen capability and Internet access. I haven't used one of the latest generation smart phones, though.
One of my sisters uses Facebook, a lot. For her, it's a multi-faceted tool of convenience, I'm sure. Each format and medium offers its own approach to convenience, however. Play by mail was the same way, in its own ways.
As the novelty wears off each new medium, it will be interesting to see how it all pans out, and what new mediums come into existence to replace them. Electronic book readers are delivering reading of books through a mechanism not so very different from what pre-existed them. Instead of a single book in one's hand, now one can carry a library of books in their hand. But, they still hold it and read the print, just as with consuming the pages of text printed on books in paper format. Can electronic book readers be used to play games, I wonder?
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09-01-2011, 06:23 PM
(This post was last modified: 09-01-2011, 06:40 PM by Gads.)
I agree with alot of what you guys are saying. Everything today is much quicker, faster and people expect immediate response. This is not only happening in gaming, but pretty much in every aspect of our lives.
I guess this is part of 'moving on', advancing as a species and civilisation.
I find myself making use of some of this so called advancement, while others I don't and dislike. For example in general I enjoy the technology advancement, while my wife generally doesn't.
As for the affects on PBM. I guess technology has had a negative affect on the hobby, maybe not directly, but from gamer's expectations. Old school PBM Gamers still remember the 'good old days' and all the positives that came with waiting 2 weeks for results. However the new generation who have never experienced the thrills of such gaming do not understand and cannot relate.
I still think the PBM hobby, or rather turn-based gaming has a future and is designed well can take advantage of the modern technologies. We're trying to do that with Ilkor: Dark Rising. Technically speaking it isn't a PBM game, as we aren't using the postal system, but it will be turn-based. The turn-around will be weekly. It's fast in terms of PBM, but slow in terms of the Internet. A player is not forced to submit a turn, his position however will not store up any missed or un-used orders. A player will be given 'X number' of orders he can submit within the turn. Orders that are not submitted are lost. A turn will be broken up into 3 phases. A phase will be roughly 48 hours. During phases a player will be able to perform a specific amount or type of order. Some orders can be submitted during any phase, while others only during a specific phase. Some orders will be processed immediately while other order types will be 'queued' and only processed in a batch at the end/start of a phase.
I suspect this is all rather difficult to imagine, but we hope we have got the right degree of balance. We feel it will enable us to bridge the gap between 'new / young players' and the excitement of turn-based gaming and also not be too watered down for the hard-core die-hard PBM Gamer of old :-)
Hoping Ilkor will still retain the strengths of PBM while taking advantage of modern technologies.
If you haven't yet checked out Ilkor then I suggest you do. We have a sub-forum here ( http://playbymail.net/mybb/forumdisplay.php?fid=15), a website where we are accepting playtesters and a blog where you can learn the latest in it's development.
(08-30-2011, 08:41 PM)vanollefen Wrote: I think what we see are economics and evolution. When PBM started, pretty much everyone thought they could make lot of money programming a game and running it. Ignoring the fact that designing for interesting and balanced gameplay itself is more complex than most people think, the economics of PBM were terrible. Combine bad games with limited economic benefit and we see some of the ebb and flow of games and players.
Evolution rears its ugly head in the form of the dreaded internet, raising number of choices for games and adding immediate gratification for the players, and a huge market for the moderators. Personally I got a small thrill out of anticipating when games would arrive. I could predict turnaround times for different games and moderators, and started to think I could tell how long it would take Flying Buffalo to run different Starweb games based on different cycles with their internal workloads. It was a game unto itself. Granted, there is something a little weird there, but todays game player would laugh if you told him it would take 2 weeks to tell if he survived a battle.
Now comes smartphones. All the would be PBM moderators are trying to come up with the next Angry Birds (note - never tried it, never will, or any smartphone game for that matter).
I'm not sure GameMasters got into PBM for the money. That is not my experience from the numerous GMs and companies I have come into contact with over the years, nor the reason for myself setting up Gad Games back in the 80s. I was only 17 years old when I discussed with my parents about taking a 'gap year' before going off to Uni. I had been running Gad Games as a part-time hobby from the age of 15 or 16. I told my parents I wanted to run Gad Games full-time during my gap year. I even remember today how we chatted about finance and it was obvious that PBM was not an industry to get into if you wanted or expected to make money.
As for 'would be PBM moderators' and smartphones. I know of very few (only one actually) that are planning to release a mobile game. I'm not quite sure what you are saying. We haven't ruled out a smartphone app, but if we ever do it will most likely just be another channel to play Ilkor: Dark Rising. It won't be a different game, much like you are do both internet and cell-phone banking.
(09-01-2011, 12:28 PM)GrimFinger Wrote: (08-30-2011, 08:41 PM)vanollefen Wrote: Now comes smartphones. All the would be PBM moderators are trying to come up with the next Angry Birds (note - never tried it, never will, or any smartphone game for that matter).
These modern day communicator devices, to borrow a term from the old Star Trek television series, are workhorses of convenience, to be certain. I went back to using my old cell phone, and gave up the one that I had that had touch screen capability and Internet access. I haven't used one of the latest generation smart phones, though.
One of my sisters uses Facebook, a lot. For her, it's a multi-faceted tool of convenience, I'm sure. Each format and medium offers its own approach to convenience, however. Play by mail was the same way, in its own ways.
As the novelty wears off each new medium, it will be interesting to see how it all pans out, and what new mediums come into existence to replace them. Electronic book readers are delivering reading of books through a mechanism not so very different from what pre-existed them. Instead of a single book in one's hand, now one can carry a library of books in their hand. But, they still hold it and read the print, just as with consuming the pages of text printed on books in paper format. Can electronic book readers be used to play games, I wonder?
Do you remember the 'Fighting Fantasy' series from Steve Jackson? They've just released the books on the Kindle. I've got a kindle and although I collect books I do find myself using my kindle ALOT. I bought the first in the series 'Warlock of Firetop Mountain'. It's a kids game book really but I have such fond memories of it I couldn't resist.
I must say they've done a great job. I think it works very well on the kindle, maybe even better than the original. It does feel like a game. However I do think it is stretching the Kindle's tech to it's limits. I don't think you'll be able to get much more out of it. I think the iPad and the Galaxy is far better suited for games of all sorts.
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I agree and its the main reason I don't play any more. It got worse after a stroke I had a year ago. I am just too slow to react, and that makes it very stressful. Its is the younger generations that needs to be engaged in pbm and on their terms.
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