What's in your toolbox?

[JonO]

Has anyone considered using Flash as a front-end for a play-by-web game? I just found a book describing how to build "virtual online worlds" in Flash - multiplayer and everything...

I considered it, but the load time seemed to be a killer - this is my only real foray into Flash. (There's no loading icon, so just take my word for the fact that if you wait for a short while, something will appear.)

[ixnay]

I used to develop CD-ROMs (back before the web exploded) using Director. Flash is sort of the bastard cousin of Director, only I've heard that they have beefed up the capabilities considerably. So I am thinking about doing some animated controls for interaction. Or even for mini games within a larger game.

[Gads]

Flash wouldn't be my first choice, but if done correctly I suspect it would be very good.

Most websites that use flash tend to only implement it in 'small pieces' where html / css isn't a suitable option. The trouble with this approach is trying to ensure the page looks and behaves the same across the various technology boundaries. Often this isn't done very well.

The other option is to produce a website entirely in flash. This isn't the norm, but it would get around alot of the problems I mentioned above. Others are introduced however. :-) This site does just that: http://www.sterkinekor.com

It has mixed reviews. Some people love it, while others hate it.

Jon: Are you sure about the lack of 'loading status' in flash? The example site above does something similar but there is a slight delay at the start while I guess it loads the framework.

Personally I wouldn't go for Flash. Html / CSS and Javascript (JQuery) is the way to go as far as I'm concerned.

[ixnay]

If you're talking about a static page, then Flash is definitely not the way to go. Adds bulk and a layer of interface unnecessarily. As such, something like Mafia Wars would NOT benefit from a Flash front-end.

Farmville, on the other hand, uses it (or something like it), because the interaction is dynamic - a graphic interchange between user and database.

I am imagining a game where, for example, you are piloting your spaceship around, live. You pull up coordinates on your computer, you access status reports, you press the hyper jump button, you find the asteroids to mine, etc. And you attack freighters that other players have put on automated shipping runs (with defensive tactics preprogrammed.)

Or you have a simcity style view of a section of a planet surface, where you can lay out your colony components, monitor production statistics, or drop invading space commandos.

These could be games within a larger game, in which you run an interstellar company that continues to earn money while you're offline, the same way your "city blocks" do in Mafia Wars. This would meld turn-based with real-time to create a casual gaming platform that still offers compelling interaction that impacts your long-term game.

[JonO]

If you're talking about a static page, then Flash is definitely not the way to go. Adds bulk and a layer of interface unnecessarily. As such, something like Mafia Wars would NOT benefit from a Flash front-end.

Farmville, on the other hand, uses it (or something like it), because the interaction is dynamic - a graphic interchange between user and database.

I am imagining a game where, for example, you are piloting your spaceship around, live. You pull up coordinates on your computer, you access status reports, you press the hyper jump button, you find the asteroids to mine, etc. And you attack freighters that other players have put on automated shipping runs (with defensive tactics preprogrammed.)

Or you have a simcity style view of a section of a planet surface, where you can lay out your colony components, monitor production statistics, or drop invading space commandos.

These could be games within a larger game, in which you run an interstellar company that continues to earn money while you're offline, the same way your "city blocks" do in Mafia Wars. This would meld turn-based with real-time to create a casual gaming platform that still offers compelling interaction that impacts your long-term game.

My point was that Flash takes time to load. Whether its a game within a game, or the game, or anything else, it takes time to load. Now, once loaded, it's as responsive as anything else that we've got, but still, Flash takes time to load.

If I were to start designing any of the games you described, I would be calling for a client app that handled most of the presentation layer and dl'd the data.

[ixnay]

Client apps are good and all, but I myself have a strong bias against downloading and installing something. Too many security issues. Flash is protected and generally safe to view.

There is a MMO game called Runescape that uses Flash, I believe. It's far beyond what I would envision using - quite a technical accomplishment in my opinion. They have a 2-level system where you can play for free, but only get access to premium content through a subscription.

Anyway, I have access to some Flash books through my local library and my kid wants me to program a game for him anyway, so I might experiment a little here. I know I can do the game play in Flash, but I need to find a way to send results up to a database, to persist them in the common universe.

(Incidentally, I have only recently become aware of the enormous resources available at libraries these days! I can view recent-edition technical books online for free -- the kind of stuff that costs $50 at the book store!)

[Gads]

There is a MMO game called Runescape that uses Flash, I believe. It's far beyond what I would envision using - quite a technical accomplishment in my opinion. They have a 2-level system where you can play for free, but only get access to premium content through a subscription.

They use a Java Applet.

Everything that you said can be done with most of the client-side technologies nowadays especially with the arrival of html5. Flashy animations are obviously easier to be done in flash, java, silverlight etc but they all require browser plugins. Stick to basic HTML if you can.

Go to: http://dev.sencha.com/deploy/ext-4.0-beta2/examples/ to get some idea of how powerful HTML and javascript can work together. All the examples are compatible with the major browsers. I'm not a huge fan of the EXT framework, I do prefer JQuery, but EXT really does show what can be achieved, though a little heavy under the hood in my option.

[JonO]

I really like what EXT is doing with storing the state on the client.

[dthacker]

I'm a Microsoftie. (Was one of the original betaguys on .NET, got involved with MSFT New England, and never looked back.) I use Visual Studio Professional, running VB (I prefer VB to C# because being more verbose, it's easier to maintain), and augmented with a lot of JQuery. The datastore is, however mySQL, not MSSQL.

Two programs that I use almost as much as Visual Studio and mySQL are Paint.NET a freebie graphics program that rivals the guys that charge many hundreds, and Poser, a 3D modeling program. There's a compatible to Poser (which isn't free) called DAZ3d which is free, even for commercial use

One of the things folks might consider if they get serious about programming is that MSFT has a startup program that provides access to an awful lot of high-powered software, almost for free. Go to http://www.microsoft.com/web/websitespark and check out "Getting Started." They'll give you the software priced in the tens of thousands and, after three years, they want you to pay 'em $100. If you aren't ready to handle the major stuff, Microsoft's express versions of all their major development tools are probably worth a look. Of course, you have to be running Windows and not think that Redmond is a bigger threat to the U.S. than Iran.

Cool Stuff Jon0,
What would you recommend for a C or C ++ compiler on windows?

[JonO]

Through websitespark you can download Visual Studio 2010. It can compile C++ either to "managed code" - i.e. .NET, or "unmanaged code": straight C++.