Far Horizons: The Return

Hi everyone,

I have Far Horizons compiled and running on a Linux server at Digital Ocean and I am starting to wrap my brain around the rules and the GM tools to get a game started. Ramblurr from the PlayByMail.net Forums added some useful Python tools for the GM that I plan to use, as well. My plan initially is to run a very small test game to see whether all orders will be processed properly by the server code. Any failures I'll attempt to fix in the C source code and recompile. This will also give me a chance to test the GM tools with actual player data instead of me making fake accounts to validate, which is actually a lot of work for one person to do alone.

Based on the postings in this sub-forum, there was a game at some point many years ago and some of you who are reading this may have been involved. I need your help...

1) Did any of you keep the files you downloaded from Ramblurr's Far Horizons server? In particular, he had a Beginner's Guide and a Strategy Guide to Far Horizons that were lost in a hard drive failure. These guides were not included in the GitHub repository because they were lost in the hard drive failure before Ramblurr put the code on GitHub. Any files you may have for Far Horizons other than the standard GitHub source code files would be greatly appreciated. I'll take anything. I'm trying to piece as much knowledge of this game back together as possible.

2) If you are interested in helping me test the orders and processing in a pre-launch test game (it's really an order submission test more than a game), please let me know and I will get you added. The good news is that there will be no pressure to submit orders. I will run orders probably once a week and whoever has orders to submit and test the code, I will process. Those that don't will get skipped over that turn and they can submit orders the next turn. At some point, we'll have tested all the orders over the course of some number of turns, identified the problems, and be prepared to fix them before starting a real game.

3) If you are interested in playing Far Horizons once it's up and running for the real game, but you don't want to participate in the test game, please let me know so I can get you on the waiting list for when that is ready.

You are welcome to participate in the test game and/or the real game even if you were not part of the original Far Horizons game organized on the PlayByMail.net Forums many years ago. I'll take anyone. The games will be free.

For any of the items above, please email me: raven@rinzai.com with Far Horizons in the subject line so it doesn't get lost in the sea of inbound email. Feel free to reply to this Forum post, too, with any information if you prefer.

For those are you who need a refresher on Far Horizons or have never heard of it before, I am linking to the rulebook here:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1nAgH4irh1E23inN44ZYn0Dt5WAmI5S0q/view?usp=sharing

Thank you.

PS: I believe that Ramblurr had some web tools for players when the game was run before. My plan is for this to be email-only initially. Should there be a strong interest, I could add web tools later, but this is not a short-term goal.

definitely interested, and offering to help on the technical front (coding etc).

I note the game is fixed length in terms of turns (20 to 100 is mentioned early in the rulebook). Does anyone know if this could be evolved into an open ended game?

I am not seeing any forced ending in the code, although I could be overlooking it. I would prefer to run it as an open-ended game. I suspect I can force it to keep running as I read that the GM can extend it.

This is the code from https://github.com/Ramblurr/Far-Horizons ?

The test game has begun! 12 players and 6 NPC positions to accommodate late player additions.

[quote="ronin" pid="138369" dateline="1619806947"]
This is the code from https://github.com/Ramblurr/Far-Horizons ?
[/quote]

It is, although, there are modifications I will be making once the test game is complete. I may host an updated copy of this code on my own GitHub account soon.

Ok, I have forked the Far Horizons source code and am going to be making improvements here:

https://github.com/ravenzachary/Far-Horizons

I also have discussions, a wiki, issue tracker, and project management tool up and running on my GitHub code fork. NOTE: all of these tools should be used for communication about the code itself, not the test game I am running. We have a mailing list for the test game.

One area that you may want to place special focus on is making it as quick and as easy as possible, for new players with no experience to get up and running successfully.

[quote="GrimFinger" pid="138381" dateline="1619952531"]
One area that you may want to place special focus on is making it as quick and as easy as possible, for new players with no experience to get up and running successfully.
[/quote]

yeah, I'm brand new to it. The rulebook is GREAT, but large. I've been summarising it as I go along as a series of mind-maps to capture the concepts and categories and rules etc. 

Raven's provided an example first move, and a movement spreadsheet. These are all very welcome but don't really go far enough to give a newbie an overall summary of strategies, considerations etc. Eg should I invest in my local star system, maximising production capability before reaching out to other systems? How many turns might it be before I might meet another player? When should I consider investing in defense? How might alliances form? I.e. what happens to make a group consider themselves better protected (and from who?) by working together?

I'm personally happy that all of this can be discovered through play, but some players might want a better summary of these aspects to understand and feel effective from the outset.

My two primary goals right now are to improve the project repository for future GMs + players and to document and hopefully fix all errors in the code as we discover them during the course of play.

A Beginner’s Guide and a Strategy Guide existed at one point, but may have been lost. Recreating them is a possibility as we learn what needs to be in these documents.

More details here:

https://github.com/ravenzachary/Far-Horizons/tree/master/doc/playeraids

PS: During the present test game, we may come to the realization that the game isn’t particularly fun to play or we may encounter bugs that force the test game to end prematurely. Far Horizons may be a short-lived experiment. Or, perhaps not?

[quote="ravenzachary" pid="138371" dateline="1619825342"]
The test game has begun! 12 players and 6 NPC positions to accommodate late player additions.
[/quote]

I would like to join in.

Robert Hayes

[quote="roberthayes" pid="138399" dateline="1620304377"]
[quote="ravenzachary" pid="138371" dateline="1619825342"]
The test game has begun! 12 players and 6 NPC positions to accommodate late player additions.
[/quote]

I would like to join in.

Robert Hayes
[/quote]

Added!

I'm going to reply to Grim's last-minute first-turn 'drudgery' and 'chore' responses here, rather than inline, because that seems to be a personal log of madness.

This game, like many space conquest games, has a rich set of features. This is necessary to keep the game interesting and deep.

The cost to having a rich set of features is a learning curve, and like many such games, it can be a daunting thing for the new player. The manual is 93 pages long.

You cannot hope to enjoy the game until you understand it. You cannot hope to understand the game until you read the manual. You cannot read the manual at the last minute.

Is any of this truly surprising?

Once you've read the manual (and made notes) you'll be in a better position to understand the example first turn shared by Raven, and carry on into later turns with the results of that first turn. In that example turn, he created a ship (actually two, but I'm betting that's a mistake with a single shipyard) and some colonial units in preparation for manufacturing on a new world.

there's not a lot else you can do on turn 1, but you need to have read the manual to take that all in.

In summary, you get out what you put in to these things. Spend the time reading the manual before deadlines are due and it'll cease to be a chore and drudgery.

Hope this doesn't come across as insulting, that's not the intention. I did feel however, that Grim's response wasn't at all how I felt about the game and needed a balanced response.

I'd also like to add that Grim's determination to get the turn submitted at the last minute rather than bail on Raven is wholly admirable.

Fungus,

None of it comes across as insulting, and my log for the game is very much a personal log of madness. It will reflect things that I think and feel (rantings, ravings, the good, the bad, and the ugly - and sometimes, the pretty), that sort of thing. Not every player of such games will take time to read and grasp all of the rules ahead of time, and so I take that route quite deliberately, to try and figure out where the learning curve might be reduced, for games of Far Horizons going forward.

I do not agree, as a blanket rule, that one gets out what one puts into such things. Sometimes, yes. Other times, no. The great villain (for me, if not for others) is time. How much time does each respective player, both current and future, have available to read and digest (which typically requires re-reading various portions) the rule book? It will vary widely, of course. From my perspective, the rule book needs to be rewritten - or at a bare minimum, a rule book for beginners just getting started needs to be created, preferably one that sifts out everything except for what is relevant to the first turn or two, in order to reduce the prospect of a newbie to the game being overwhelmed by the sheer amount of text thrown at them by the rule book in its current form.

Not reading rule books, or just trying to quickly skim over them, can lead to a gnashing of teeth. This is no different, now, than it has ever been, Fungus, as you would likely agree. I don't have a desire to "bail on Raven." I didn't bail the last time around that I tried my hand at Far Horizons (around a decade ago), and I haven't bailed this time, either (thus far, anyway). Retention of understanding of the rules from the previous time that I tried playing the game has proven to be minimal, as in virtually non-existent - which is annoying all on its on, I might add. Not surprising (for me, anyway), but annoying, nonetheless.

I also do not agree that you cannot enjoy the game, if you do not understand it. I enjoyed attacking Ixnay's empire, the last time around, and I didn't understand it any better then, than I do now. In fact, my understanding of the rules is probably higher this time around than the last. Likewise, I wouldn't agree that one can't read the manual (aka the rule book for Far Horizons) at the last minute. That's certainly lies well within the realm of possibility, even if it is not my preferred path of approaching this test game of Far Horizons. Human beings have a long, colorful, and storied history of cramming at the last moment, whether for tests, exams, or even rule books for games that they want to learn how to play. Just ask Ixnay, sometime, if I seemed to enjoy the part of the game our last time around, where I found his homeworld and started attacking his empire's assets. Quite enjoyable, that was!

As for reading the manual and making notes, my postings in the forum here ARE my notes. By posting as I do, it helps me to retain information about how to play the game.

And unlike you, Fungus, King of Mud, I am older than I used to be, and my eyesight has been increasingly challenged over the last couple of years or so. I have to make use of reading glasses, these days, and I'm currently about two months or so into a bout of double vision. Those things, too, contribute to the annoyance and frustration factor, I'm sure.

Plus, the forum here can always use some new postings, I like to think, and at some point down the road, some may even find my postings on the game to have an entertaining quality, all their own. Or not, as forum users' mileage may vary.

very thoughtful reply, Grim - you make some very good points. I was certainly describing my own enjoyment of devouring manuals when getting into a new game. The fact we're all so different is what makes our individual participation in these games so deliciously unpredictable :)

I doubt I am going to do much more for Far Horizons after GM'ing this first test game (and playing in future games). Michael Henderson is porting the game code to Go and updating all of the data files from binary to JSON. My hope is that Michael becomes the GM for game #2 on his new code and continues to evolve the game over time.

It's not that I lack an interest, it just makes more sense for a real developer to take over. I can only do so much with the original C code.

I still plan to GM PBMs in the future, although these will likely be other resurrected or new PBMs.

I link here to some mindmaps of the manual that I made while reading it. I find this process helps reinforce my understanding of the contents of a technical book. If this helps anyone else, I am happy. I have no doubt captured several misunderstandings and will be happy to hear of corrections.

I've been cleaning up the C source for FH with a view to being able to extend it if the Go version takes too long to materialise (but seeing really great progress from Michael on that so far).

Spurred on by the talk of the horrible ship name with 12 spaces in it, I investigated the Edit tool which allows certain attributes to be changed by the GM to correct things if necessary.

The name of the ship was not something the tool allowed to change, but I have added that capability successfully and it will be an option for Raven if he and the players want it.

An alternative would be to support a RENAME SHIP or RENAME XYZ order so that players could self manage.

What do we think?

I think it is a great idea.  The second option is better as it could be utilized for planet names as well.

for the Order, I guess it'd need to be either the first thing done or the last thing done, to ensure the rest of the turn processing didn't get confused about what name to use. Will investigate the best option.

I'll do whatever the players want me to do. Just let me know. Thank you, Fungus.

Rethinking. Another approach is to change NAME to update directly. Not sure how surprising that would be.

Speaking of names...I'd love to be able to rename my homeworld. Not urgent, just something for the list.

Added rename order for planets.

Created new RenameShip command to change the name of a ship. Still have to add it as an internal order.

Just for posterity's sake I'll chime in about the lost materials..

Back in 2010-2011 I received a copy of a strategy guide and other supplementary materials from Dwayne "Dewey" "oldgamer" W. He had come about those materials from games played back in the late 90s.

Unfortunately after my server crash in 2011 which unceremoniously ended the game FH game I was running, I also lost those files :( I've looked through all my old backups and harddrives, but apparently didn't save them locally.

FWIW I've also tried to contact Rick Morneau, the creator of FH, several times over the years, but his last publicly listed email address no longer works (and didn't back in 2010).

[quote="Ramblurr" pid="138736" dateline="1696787693"]
Just for posterity's sake I'll chime in about the lost materials..

Back in 2010-2011 I received a copy of a strategy guide and other supplementary materials from Dwayne "Dewey" "oldgamer" W. He had come about those materials from games played back in the late 90s.

Unfortunately after my server crash in 2011 which unceremoniously ended the game FH game I was running, I also lost those files :( I've looked through all my old backups and harddrives, but apparently didn't save them locally.

FWIW I've also tried to contact Rick Morneau, the creator of FH, several times over the years, but his last publicly listed email address no longer works (and didn't back in 2010).
[/quote]

It's great to see you back, whether you end up staying for very long or not. I also appreciate you posting, this.

It's good to see this old forum back, whether people use it much or not.