Ok as I see it Factions should only be organised groups that all follow that all have common rules, beleifs and are structured. They have one ruler that runs the group. A true Organization not things that sometimes work together in a large group.
I bring this up because I see certain things that should not be considered factions just a variety of different independent clans as they are not truly structured.
Bandits
Pirates
Heretics
Mercenaries (for the Most part but this could be if they structured themselves like the MV in Midgard USA)
Barbarians
Vikings
Celts
Nomads
Raiders
etc.
These things almost always are clanish and are very likely to fight each other as well as others. I see them just being different types of independent clans each with their own setup and design and skill set but no real organization that backs them. This could be something anyone could play with out attaching themselves to a faction.
something you may not have consider is movement and things in the huge world of midgard is slow it took me over a year to simply move my clan from northern part of Midgard down to the southern continent. I did nothing but move that is extremely slow and boring with only 3 clans and 1 turn a month. I would never do that again with so few clans.
[quote='Steve Kort' pid='137485' dateline='1580523828']
Ok as I see it Factions should only be organised groups that all follow that all have common rules, beleifs and are structured. They have one ruler that runs the group. A true Organization not things that sometimes work together in a large group.
I bring this up because I see certain things that should not be considered factions just a variety of different independent clans as they are not truly structured.
Bandits
Pirates
Heretics
Mercenaries (for the Most part but this could be if they structured themselves like the MV in Midgard USA)
Barbarians
Vikings
Celts
Nomads
Raiders
etc.
These things almost always are clanish and are very likely to fight each other as well as others. I see them just being different types of independent clans each with their own setup and design and skill set but no real organization that backs them. This could be something anyone could play with out attaching themselves to a faction.
[/quote]
I agree on all points! If a player wants to end up playing like one of these (in the future), then perhaps we can work out a way that they can operate as an pseudo-faction (a particular flavor of Independent) in that way without having either the benefits or restrictions of a structured organization. But for now, I think perhaps these should all be relegated to NPCs, don't you think?
[quote='Steve Kort' pid='137487' dateline='1580525312']
something you may not have consider is movement and things in the huge world of midgard is slow it took me over a year to simply move my clan from northern part of Midgard down to the southern continent. I did nothing but move that is extremely slow and boring with only 3 clans and 1 turn a month. I would never do that again with so few clans.
[/quote]
Perhaps we can tweak movement rates to be more conducive for getting from place to place??
I'm hoping that we don't start out so spread out in the beginning so hopefully there won't be as much reason to move extra-long distances.
[quote='Davin' pid='137510' dateline='1580533363']
[quote='Steve Kort' pid='137485' dateline='1580523828']
Ok as I see it Factions should only be organised groups that all follow that all have common rules, beleifs and are structured. They have one ruler that runs the group. A true Organization not things that sometimes work together in a large group.
I bring this up because I see certain things that should not be considered factions just a variety of different independent clans as they are not truly structured.
Bandits
Pirates
Heretics
Mercenaries (for the Most part but this could be if they structured themselves like the MV in Midgard USA)
Barbarians
Vikings
Celts
Nomads
Raiders
etc.
These things almost always are clanish and are very likely to fight each other as well as others. I see them just being different types of independent clans each with their own setup and design and skill set but no real organization that backs them. This could be something anyone could play with out attaching themselves to a faction.
[/quote]
I agree on all points! If a player wants to end up playing like one of these (in the future), then perhaps we can work out a way that they can operate as an pseudo-faction (a particular flavor of Independent) in that way without having either the benefits or restrictions of a structured organization. But for now, I think perhaps these should all be relegated to NPCs, don't you think?
[/quote]
Agree. My thought for a player that wanted one of these you just label them as Independent and then give them what ever the base skills that are decided for that type of NPC. That way the clan has that sort of flavor.
I suppose I could leave half the factions with nobody in them, but that sure doesn't sound right. What kind of a game explanation might you come up with for factions without players, or worse, a faction with only a single player/clan in it? And what would it do to the history? And how would you then set up rules for new factions if they're not required to have a minimum number of players in them?
Well, I was hoping to limit them enough so that every faction had at least multiple someones, but I suppose I could just kill those off. If enough people aren't interested in playing a faction, why start with it at all? But if there were few enough wanting to play again that each faction couldn't be reasonably represented, then I haven't done my job and the restart won't succeed.
Ok..... I give up. I can't see any good reason why factions can't be empty (or nearly so). They just won't grow noticeably and won't accomplish very much (just NPC play). But I can't think of why that won't work from a technical point of view. If you're willing to play in very inactive factions, then why should I stop you.
So, fine -- we'll spin up all the possible factions and let your clans choose how they want to play.
I would like to introduce the concept of "organized" factions (ones that have a shared set of goals and seniors to help direct them) and "disorganized" factions (just independent groups doing whatever they feel like). Independents would be a disorganized faction (no seniors and no ranks) that players can play in and they can do whatever they feel like. In addition, groups like Bandits and similar "general" enemies would also be called disorganized factions with no leaders or goals (other than making trouble), but I'd like to (at least to try out in the beginning) make those all NPC factions if we could. These NPC factions would be used as enemies to all players (of at least one faction or another) and therefore someone is nearly always available to "fight".
[quote=Davin]
Ok..... I give up. I can't see any good reason why factions can't be empty (or nearly so). They just won't grow noticeably and won't accomplish very much (just NPC play). But I can't think of why that won't work from a technical point of view. If you're willing to play in very inactive factions, then why should I stop you.
So, fine -- we'll spin up all the possible factions and let your clans choose how they want to play.
I would like to introduce the concept of "organized" factions (ones that have a shared set of goals and seniors to help direct them) and "disorganized" factions (just independent groups doing whatever they feel like). Independents would be a disorganized faction (no seniors and no ranks) that players can play in and they can do whatever they feel like. In addition, groups like Bandits and similar "general" enemies would also be called disorganized factions with no leaders or goals (other than making trouble), but I'd like to (at least to try out in the beginning) make those all NPC factions if we could. These NPC factions would be used as enemies to all players (of at least one faction or another) and therefore someone is nearly always available to "fight".
Comments?
[/quote] I like this idea a lot Davin!!!
I feel then that the following should be listed as "organized" factions:
- Imperials
- Boda Family
- Getham Family
- Roder Family
- Merk Verk
- SOA
- Cymru
- Seeker
- Banner Religion
- Gift Religion
- Ring Religion
- Order of the Hand Knighthood Religion
- Blood & Fire Religion
- Serkeanar Religion
- The Cult of the Dark One Religion
I feel this will give you many factions that will allow players to go into all directions, plus I would open up "all of Midgard" giving a large gaming area allowing for players to return to their own beloved stomping grounds(Map Areas). Now I understand that your going to reduce all cities to almost ruins with almost nothing in them, with almost no city defences. Also most cities will be Independent , with a scattering being declared for some faction with a smattering of a cpuple factional offices and temples across the continent even in some of these Independent cities.
Next don't allow factional regiments to exist in the beginning, and also make players earn any hand outs by doing tasks and roleplaying in character for their factions that they exist in. Also my advice it to make "every startup clan' start as a Independent clan, and make them declare for whatever faction they want. Make them role play it out, find a factional office or temple and talk to someone at that faction building to be excepted within that specific faction. Once again make players roleplay being excepted into a faction that they might want to join. Also have the players define what they might be interested on startup so you can put them near to either a declared city or some factional offices/temples that they can interact with and etc. Yes this will need some travel and special action use, but it will be clearer what the players want to do.
Now the whole issue of startup skills needs to be addressed in game start so players know what they can do. Sorry Davin but startup skills will help to define a clan and its future in the game and in any faction. You must allow players to be able to define these (10) skill/level points and then just build the code later on that uses or manages them. This is a important element and needs to be defined for players, as it is something everyone remembered and always worked with. Not having it is a huge hole, to not at least fill the void with the stop gap of the past. It would be easy to build something to use them.
[quote='DreamWeaver' pid='137555' dateline='1580780754']
I feel this will give you many factions that will allow players to go into all directions, plus I would open up "all of Midgard" giving a large gaming area allowing for players to return to their own beloved stomping grounds(Map Areas).
[/quote]
I'd kinda still prefer to start people closer together and let them expand mostly based on movement rates and desire. It's not going to be any fun if there's nobody in the same region as you and all you're doing is wandering around lost in a forest or a figurative desert. I think that with some inter-player interaction being more likely for more players then it will be more interesting to play. If somebody really wants to go off on his own, well then he gets what he deserves.
Expansion into other continents would be possible, but not until ships become available to get you there.
[quote='DreamWeaver' pid='137555' dateline='1580780754']
Now the whole issue of startup skills needs to be addressed in game start so players know what they can do. Sorry Davin but startup skills will help to define a clan and its future in the game and in any faction. You must allow players to be able to define these (10) skill/level points and then just build the code later on that uses or manages them. This is a important element and needs to be defined for players, as it is something everyone remembered and always worked with. Not having it is a huge hole, to not at least fill the void with the stop gap of the past. It would be easy to build something to use them.
[/quote]
<sigh> Do you have any idea how little development time I have available and how much longer it will take me to bring up skills in the beginning? If everyone is willing to wait for months more just to get skills, then I guess I can schedule that in.
[quote='DreamWeaver' pid='137555' dateline='1580780754']
Next don't allow factional regiments to exist in the beginning, and also make players earn any hand outs by doing tasks and roleplaying in character for their factions that they exist in. Also my advice it to make "every startup clan' start as a Independent clan, and make them declare for whatever faction they want. Make them role play it out, find a factional office or temple and talk to someone at that faction building to be excepted within that specific faction. Once again make players roleplay being excepted into a faction that they might want to join. Also have the players define what they might be interested on startup so you can put them near to either a declared city or some factional offices/temples that they can interact with and etc. Yes this will need some travel and special action use, but it will be clearer what the players want to do.
[/quote]
And yes, I'd like to make factional resources much smaller and harder to get, details TBD.
I'd already planned to make everyone (and almost all cities) start as Independent. Hopefully there will be enough factional options scattered around that clans won't have too much trouble finding a way into their chosen "profession".
[quote=Davin]
[quote=DreamWeaver]
Now the whole issue of startup skills needs to be addressed in game start so players know what they can do. Sorry Davin but startup skills will help to define a clan and its future in the game and in any faction. You must allow players to be able to define these (10) skill/level points and then just build the code later on that uses or manages them. This is a important element and needs to be defined for players, as it is something everyone remembered and always worked with. Not having it is a huge hole, to not at least fill the void with the stop gap of the past. It would be easy to build something to use them.
[/quote]
<sigh> Do you have any idea how little development time I have available and how much longer it will take me to bring up skills in the beginning? If everyone is willing to wait for months more just to get skills, then I guess I can schedule that in.
[/quote]
Davin, do as it was in the past, just have a text field that holds the Skill Info for each character. Then as you can work out the code to use the skills and do a conversion/replace to role out your new code. Basically the initial text field will help define the skills as it did in the past for the game in all versions of Midgard. Then develop the code and etc. Then once you can get it out of the code then convert it.
Before that I have to decide what's available and how it can be used, and that's the hardest part. If someone decides on skill XYZ and then I decide that it needs to be quite different from what he thought (perhaps with a different name), then all his hard work and planning is lost. I don't want to be doing that to anyone.
[quote=Davin]
Before that I have to decide what's available and how it can be used, and that's the hardest part. If someone decides on skill XYZ and then I decide that it needs to be quite different from what he thought (perhaps with a different name), then all his hard work and planning is lost. I don't want to be doing that to anyone.
[/quote]
Well put forward the skills here and let us help you.
We can work on it, but it'll take some work to coordinate between skills and the kinds of effects we'll want to see. I'm still too busy talking on the forum at present to even think about it right now, but we'll get there.
- Imperials (open) - Boda Family [color=#333333][size=small](open)[/size][/color] - Getham Family [color=#333333][size=small](open)[/size][/color] - Roder Family [color=#333333][size=small](open)[/size][/color] - Merk Verk (?) - SOA (?) - Cymru [color=#333333][size=small](open)[/size][/color] - Seeker [color=#333333][size=small](open)[/size][/color] - Banner Religion [color=#333333][size=small](open)[/size][/color] - Gift Religion [color=#333333][size=small](open)[/size][/color] - Ring Religion [color=#333333][size=small](open)[/size][/color] - Order of the Hand Knighthood Religion (?) - Blood & Fire Religion (closed - to Evil) - Serkeanar Religion (Closed - to Evil) - The Cult of the Dark One Religion (Closed - to Evil)
Hmmm.... unfortunately I don't yet know very many details of a lot of these factions that were added along the way, but that sounds like the direction I was thinking about.
I think the Merk Verk is probably a good PC candidate (unless I misunderstand what they're about). The SOA is questionable, I can see it going either way. I don't know much about the OOTH so I'll need to do some more research or have you describe it for me.
The MV was always considered a Honorable Merc's, while the SOA was a Dark Sider that supported both Bandits and Pirates and had strong ties to the Brotherhood (MOB). You might also classify them a Evil faction as well.
I strongly disagree with you Davin, the Evil factions have just as much of a place in the game as the Good factions. I guess you can make many factions Evil and thus make them all NPC, I guess then you will have the following then:
So let's review the status of the faction so far:
Listed as "organized" factions: (that are open for players to join and play)
- Imperials --- (open)
- Boda Family--- (open)
- Getham Family--- (open)
- Roder Family--- (open)
- Merk Verk ---(open)
- Cymru--- (open)
- Seeker--- (open)
- Banner Religion--- (open)
- Gift Religion--- (open)
- Ring Religion--- (open)
- Order of the Hand Knighthood Religion OOH (?)
The list of "disorganized" factions: (are closed and setup as NPC only play, not for players)
- Bandits--- (Closed- Evil)
- Pirates--- (Closed - Evil)
- Heretics--- (Closed)
- Blood & Fire Religion ---(closed - Evil)
- Serkeanar Religion--- (Closed - Evil)
- The Cult of the Dark One Religion--- (Closed - Evil)
- Barbarians (SeaKings)--- (Closed - Evil)
- SOA --- (Closed - Evil)
- Skelts (Celts/Pics)--- (Closed- Evil)
- Guilds--- (Closed)
- Brotherhood (Mob)--- (Closed - Evil)
[quote='Davin' pid='137554' dateline='1580775363']
Ok..... I give up. I can't see any good reason why factions can't be empty (or nearly so). They just won't grow noticeably and won't accomplish very much (just NPC play). But I can't think of why that won't work from a technical point of view. If you're willing to play in very inactive factions, then why should I stop you.
So, fine -- we'll spin up all the possible factions and let your clans choose how they want to play.
I would like to introduce the concept of "organized" factions (ones that have a shared set of goals and seniors to help direct them) and "disorganized" factions (just independent groups doing whatever they feel like). Independents would be a disorganized faction (no seniors and no ranks) that players can play in and they can do whatever they feel like. In addition, groups like Bandits and similar "general" enemies would also be called disorganized factions with no leaders or goals (other than making trouble), but I'd like to (at least to try out in the beginning) make those all NPC factions if we could. These NPC factions would be used as enemies to all players (of at least one faction or another) and therefore someone is nearly always available to "fight".
Comments?
[/quote]
I don't see the point of "disorganized" factions. Sounds like Independents. I'm a faction guy. I like them and have always enjoyed playing in a faction.
[quote='DreamWeaver' pid='137676' dateline='1581472818']
The MV was always considered a Honorable Merc's, while the SOA was a Dark Sider that supported both Bandits and Pirates and had strong ties to the Brotherhood (MOB). You might also classify them a Evil faction as well.
I strongly disagree with you Davin, the Evil factions have just as much of a place in the game as the Good factions. I guess you can make many factions Evil and thus make them all NPC, I guess then you will have the following then:
[/quote]
See my comments about "organized evil" elsewhere.
I always felt like the MV was reasonably honorable, too. The world needs hire-able soldiers, at least, to fight for various causes (assuming the soldiers feel a cause is worth fighting for).
I thought the SOA wasn't a very "good" group, too, and sounds like just the place for thieves, assassins, spies, etc. If there are mercenary groups that fight solely for money without considering the morality of the employer's goals, then perhaps they would best fit here too, don't you think?
So, you're saying that every group of bandits in the world belongs to a world-wide hierarchy, reporting up through chains of command, rising through ranks, following a specific set of goals, and cooperating with every other group of bandits like they were brothers??
[quote='Davin' pid='137699' dateline='1581659285']
[quote='DreamWeaver' pid='137676' dateline='1581472818']
The MV was always considered a Honorable Merc's, while the SOA was a Dark Sider that supported both Bandits and Pirates and had strong ties to the Brotherhood (MOB). You might also classify them a Evil faction as well.
I strongly disagree with you Davin, the Evil factions have just as much of a place in the game as the Good factions. I guess you can make many factions Evil and thus make them all NPC, I guess then you will have the following then:
[/quote]
See my comments about "organized evil" elsewhere.
I always felt like the MV was reasonably honorable, too. The world needs hire-able soldiers, at least, to fight for various causes (assuming the soldiers feel a cause is worth fighting for).
I thought the SOA wasn't a very "good" group, too, and sounds like just the place for thieves, assassins, spies, etc. If there are mercenary groups that fight solely for money without considering the morality of the employer's goals, then perhaps they would best fit here too, don't you think?
[/quote]
The first faction I joined, back in 1986, was MercVerk -- the Senior #1 back then was Cletus Graham and Contract Coordinator was Hal Mayne (played by Jim Early). They produced two booklets - The Code and The Book. I believe I still have them in long term storage. They were very honorable, well organized, and extremely well run.
[quote='Davin' pid='137700' dateline='1581659459']
So, you're saying that every group of bandits in the world belongs to a world-wide hierarchy, reporting up through chains of command, rising through ranks, following a specific set of goals, and cooperating with every other group of bandits like they were brothers??
[/quote]
An independent clan that wants to be a bandit would be an independent clan that does banditry. An independent clan that wants to do piracy would be an independent clan that functions as a pirate. I see no reason to have a "Bandit" faction or a "Pirate" faction. They are the definition of an independent clan.
I DO NOT like the idea of an Order of the Hand faction. They should be a part of The Ring Religion, for those Ring players that want a more martial role in their play style. If the game expands and there becomes an overabundance of Ring players who want to be fighters then let them organically split; otherwise, leave them in the Ring.
Naval factions will be nice to also have too, but I have read that the part of the code is not yet been written to allow them in the game yet. Can we at least talk about them?
[quote='FutureSojourner' pid='137701' dateline='1581676497']
The first faction I joined, back in 1986, was MercVerk -- the Senior #1 back then was Cletus Graham and Contract Coordinator was Hal Mayne (played by Jim Early). They produced two booklets - The Code and The Book. I believe I still have them in long term storage. They were very honorable, well organized, and extremely well run.
[/quote]
That sounds like great reference material to add to our documentation.
[quote='FutureSojourner' pid='137702' dateline='1581676662']
An independent clan that wants to be a bandit would be an independent clan that does banditry. An independent clan that wants to do piracy would be an independent clan that functions as a pirate. I see no reason to have a "Bandit" faction or a "Pirate" faction. They are the definition of an independent clan.
[/quote]
I agree - that was the point I was trying to get across. Bandits and Pirates really aren't factions - I called them disorganized factions just to give them a name to lump them under. I would expect them to all be independent of one another with no structure or coordination. But I was getting complaints about them not being an organized faction that players could join and rise in rank through. That just doesn't sound right to me.
[quote='FutureSojourner' pid='137703' dateline='1581676786']
I DO NOT like the idea of an Order of the Hand faction. They should be a part of The Ring Religion, for those Ring players that want a more martial role in their play style. If the game expands and there becomes an overabundance of Ring players who want to be fighters then let them organically split; otherwise, leave them in the Ring.
[/quote]
You know more about that than I do, so let's see if people agree with you. I'm willing to go either way the players like it.
[quote='TheDarkSide' pid='137745' dateline='1581817887']
Naval factions will be nice to also have too, but I have read that the part of the code is not yet been written to allow them in the game yet. Can we at least talk about them?
[/quote]
Sure we can talk about them! But don't we have enough disparate discussions in progress at present? Why don't we hold off on this until we get some of our other stuff settled first?
[quote=Davin]
[quote=DreamWeaver]
OK here are the Sons of Sky faction from Midgard UK with Stephien Wier
[/quote]
So if we don't have big "invaders" for them to fight, doesn't that make them unnecessary?
[/quote]
I am only presenting a option of a faction that was Live and players paid to play, they might want to see it again. I am presenting what was, am not saying no to anything. All factions that were Live and people paid to play in the past should be presented to all to see and then decide on.
[quote=Davin]
[quote=DreamWeaver]
OK here are the Sons of Sky faction from Midgard UK with Stephien Wier
[/quote]
So if we don't have big "invaders" for them to fight, doesn't that make them unnecessary?
[/quote]
They were anti Imperials, so if the Imperials are not Invaders then would be against the Barbarians. You need to set in STONE the back history of the Imperials first, before you can judge the Sons of Sky.
I don't have a problem considering whatever we like - I just wanted to point out that their goals didn't really fit what we've been discussing elsewhere.
