Should the Guilds faction be allowed as a Live/Open faction

[DreamWeaver]

Should the Guilds faction be allowed as a Live and Open faction for players to play in the game? Under Midgard USA it was opened up by Zan for game play. I had talked to Zan about what they could be and do and there were active player clans at the end of the time of the game in Midgard USA.

Declared Guilds clans skill set:

 Now it the skills are what they do for a city basically. They have all the Naval based skills that are for shipyards, the city based skills, as well as Oratory skill which is related to the Helios communication based ability. Basically they are a city based clan, although I think there should be a Blacksmith or Smithy based  skills added as well too. Maybe drop the ADM skill and add a SMH - Smithy skill instead.  Remember they create "Manufactured Goods" that are needed for everything. So maybe their skill set should be:

 SHP - Shipwright
 SEA - Seamanship
 NAV - Navigation
 SMH - Smithy
 ENG - Engineering
 MER- Merchant
 ORA - Oratory

 Factional benefits:

 1) Can make Manufactured Goods from metal.
 2) Can build ships from resources.
 3) Can make Uniforms/Winter Uniforms from resources.
 4) Can support Construction projects, with some mancycles bonus.
 Defined like this, I think that it could be fun to play one of these clans.

[DreamWeaver]

Thinking about it, maybe a Guilds Construction regiment could have a special perk of being able to be used not just for Construction, but also used for Mining, Lumber, Stone Quarry work, as well as making Manufactured Goods, or Building points to make ships. It would make their Construction regiments extremely valuable regiments .

[FutureSojourner]

Should the Guilds faction be allowed as a Live and Open faction for players to play in the game? Under Midgard USA it was opened up by Zan for game play. I had talked to Zan about what they could be and do and there were active player clans at the end of the time of the game in Midgard USA.

Declared Guilds clans skill set:

 Now it the skills are what they do for a city basically. They have all the Naval based skills that are for shipyards, the city based skills, as well as Oratory skill which is related to the Helios communication based ability. Basically they are a city based clan, although I think there should be a Blacksmith or Smithy based  skills added as well too. Maybe drop the ADM skill and add a SMH - Smithy skill instead.  Remember they create "Manufactured Goods" that are needed for everything. So maybe their skill set should be:

 SHP - Shipwright
 SEA - Seamanship
 NAV - Navigation
 SMH - Smithy
 ENG - Engineering
 MER- Merchant
 ORA - Oratory

 Factional benefits:

 1) Can make Manufactured Goods from metal.
 2) Can build ships from resources.
 3) Can make Uniforms/Winter Uniforms from resources.
 4) Can support Construction projects, with some mancycles bonus.
 Defined like this, I think that it could be fun to play one of these clans.

Before Zan's game died I was allowed to play a Guild clan.  Didn't get to do much with him before the game closed.  I think if The Guilds were opened up to players and they were allowed to play the Guild senior it would have to be a player who is willing to work with other factions; it wouldn't work well if the guilds became highly polarized.  The Guilds, to be effective, need to work with everyone -- or at least the Families, Religions, and even the Imperials.

I would say give The Guilds one city, of reasonable size considering the starting cities.  If I were running a Guild city I would focus on making it a cosmopolitan power-house of a city with factional offices of every possible faction and a communication/commerce hug in the game working closely with the Getham for trade and others to build up the city.  I think for the urban player, like myself, who is not very much into combat playing Guild could be fun.

Oliver

[Dark Shadows]

I would love to play a Guild clan.

[Davin]

Before Zan's game died I was allowed to play a Guild clan.  Didn't get to do much with him before the game closed.  I think if The Guilds were opened up to players and they were allowed to play the Guild senior it would have to be a player who is willing to work with other factions; it wouldn't work well if the guilds became highly polarized.  The Guilds, to be effective, need to work with everyone -- or at least the Families, Religions, and even the Imperials.

I kinda prefer the "guilds" to be NPCs, and this is the basic reason - it's too easy to be preferential where an unbiased outlook is really needed for game balance.

For example, let's say that the shipwright's guild gets it into their head that some faction "X" shouldn't be running around on the water.  Maybe they've a tendency to pirate ships and the guild doesn't want to support that.  In such a case, the guild would prefer not to build or repair ships for "X", or even to let them dock at ports, and now "X" is effectively locked out of being able to operate at sea.  I really don't want that kind of bias happening in the basic game services.

Is there perhaps some way you could play in that sort of way without making it a PC faction?  What if the guilds hired out work to be done on their behalf, for instance?

[FutureSojourner]

I kinda prefer the "guilds" to be NPCs, and this is the basic reason - it's too easy to be preferential where an unbiased outlook is really needed for game balance.

For example, let's say that the shipwright's guild gets it into their head that some faction "X" shouldn't be running around on the water.  Maybe they've a tendency to pirate ships and the guild doesn't want to support that.  In such a case, the guild would prefer not to build or repair ships for "X", or even to let them dock at ports, and now "X" is effectively locked out of being able to operate at sea.  I really don't want that kind of bias happening in the basic game services.

Is there perhaps some way you could play in that sort of way without making it a PC faction?  What if the guilds hired out work to be done on their behalf, for instance?

The Guilds have always been an NPC Faction; however, I think they could be PC run if they were governed by players who had the vision to keep them neutral and profitable. Their factional goals could foster neutrality and there is always the #0 as the check and balance to ensure the Seniors are running the faction the way they are intended. Your example does not make much sense to me. It works if the city is a Guild city, but if I'm city leader and I think faction X is doing something nefarious I will forbid them from entering the city -- which would prevent them from building ships.

Your final comment, "What if the guilds hired out work to be done on their behalf..." Of course, the Guilds should have Tasks to defend their Helios Stations and build Guild offices in cities. That has always been the case.

[Davin]

The Guilds have always been an NPC Faction; however, I think they could be PC run if they were governed by players who had the vision to keep them neutral and profitable.  Their factional goals could foster neutrality and there is always the #0 as the check and balance to ensure the Seniors are running the faction the way they are intended.  Your example does not make much sense to me.  It works if the city is a Guild city, but if I'm city leader and I think faction X is doing something nefarious I will forbid them from entering the city -- which would prevent them from building ships. 

Yes, I can see that.  But it's tough to stay really neutral when everyone else is giving you good (from your point of view) reasons to do things "their way".  If you take that control away from players then there's nothing to "ask for".

I wasn't talking about cities.  I was talking about factional decisions.

Your final comment, "What if the guilds hired out work to be done on their behalf..."  Of course, the Guilds should have Tasks to defend their Helios Stations and build Guild offices in cities.  That has always been the case.

I meant that as a "would that satisfy your needs for playing a guild clan"?

[DreamWeaver]

Maybe what you do is make the Guilds a faction that is open to players to play declared Guilds clans, but that the seniors are all NPCs until someone one in game actually works there way up to become a Guilds senior. They would have to play a long time I know, but they would also prove themselves as being a true Guilds senior.

[Davin]

I'm still not convinced yet.  It's not that I expect PCs to be bad at this or to do bad things, but that it's technically possible and game services need to be independent of players.

What would you do in your town today if the city sewer workers were factionalized, and for whatever reason they decided that your section of town didn't deserve the same service that everyone else gets?  Just the mere thought might have the entire town up in arms at city hall trying to throw out the whole government as unfair.

Not only that, I wouldn't want to see one faction handling all the guilds.  Technically, every different profession/craft/industry should have its own guild, and that's way to much to be handling with player involvement.  Besides, most guild work is local in nature and I don't see many possibilities of them having an organized structure that is managed over the whole continent, much less given ranks across widely-separated areas.

There are some things that you don't really want to take chances with, and so far I haven't heard any good reasons to take such chances.  But perhaps we can start off without PC guilds and reconsider them later once the game is in play?  The effect of the guilds can be built into the model so I don't have to worry about how things are being done every cycle.

[DreamWeaver]

Then make them a NPC as well too Davin. Go with your inner voice and follow what you think Davin. You are right on all accounts and we will work with your choice.