Faction #16 The Cult of the Dark One

[Davin]

Let me hit you with this comparison with D&D...  If we have assorted pockets of evil/bad beasties in D&D that players need to contend with, they need to be able to wipe out (or otherwise dispose of) these little bands without dying out themselves, otherwise there wouldn't be any fun in playing for an adventure or two before dying.  Consequently, parties are traditionally more powerful (in one way or another) than the enemies they take on.  If a player decided to play a family of Bugbears (for instance), behaving as Bugbears behave, how long will it be before another party of adventurers comes along to (successfully) kill them and rid the area of their disruptions?

Likewise, let's say there's a group of Bandits (or similar) harassing trade near a city.  The city wants them gone and arranges for one or more clans (PC or NPC) to go get rid of them.  How long is that group going to last?  And if you're actually a player playing that group, how long will you live?  Isn't that going to be really anti-fun?

This I think sums it up …The Answer to Davin's question:

I don't have problems with clans dying.  I just want them able to play long enough to enjoy it.

[TheDarkSide]

Ahhh if you make them appear as Independent to others on Scouting reports, and allowing them to hide in cities altogether I think I could have a great time as a Cult player. Plus the Ambush bonus would be great as well too. Just think of the Chaios that could be had with that, I think by best buddies the Bandits, Pirates, and SOA would be awesome allies.

[Davin]

The "fun" in laying a Cult of the Dark One would be in devious manipulation.  Perhaps have all Dark One clans listed as "Independent," or as a Family/Imperial clan that secretely declares for the Dark One and holds dual affiliation.  Have all Dark One temples as underground dwellings not seen on a City Report.  There are things that you can do to make it fun... but it would require some creativity and should be reserved for experienced players.  I wouldn't let new players start out as Dark One -- make it an "unlock" or something similar.

Deviousness -- that's more like what I'd prefer to see.  An Independent can behave any way he wants to, including setting up his own underground organization that supports the "bad guys".  Perhaps it's the "openness" or "obviousness" or "organization" of the formal method that bothers me??  Perhaps they might create a hidden section of the "thieves guild" in the city and run it like a clan-sized faction?

I think it's quite possible for a declared clan to act against his faction's interests, stealing (and other such contraindicated activities) "under the radar", but that's up to the seniors to catch and punish (and they're liable to get wind of it eventually, such noticing that you're not progressing in factional influence or performing factional tasks).

[Davin]

Ok having them show up as "Independent" clans on scouting reports would I think work extremely effective, and this would counter one of Davin's fears that everyone would hunt them down.  so the benefits could be rewritten to be:

Benefits:
1)The Cult can Ambush other clans. This would make them Shadows in the Dark and extremely dangerous. Fear would make people do what is asked of them, or else be killed. Remember this faction is called: The Cult of the Dark One. This faction wouldn't be combat army types, but within a city, they would be feared to be in every shadow. 
2)They would appear as an Independent clan when encountered on a scouting report.
3) Within a city they could appear hidden, thus not being located or seen on a scouting report within a city, if the clan's size is less than 20% of what the city population actually is. Example 20,000 pop city, would mean if the Cult clan is less than 2,000 retainers they would remain hidden to anyone coming to the city and not know that they are even within the city.

I also feel that a Cult Shrine would be hidden within any city it is built within. I like the note on the back of the CVR, of "Rumor is said that there is a Hidden Cult Shrine within the city". This all words to add a sense of mystery and intrigue to the whole faction and character that fits with the faction.

Or what if the Cult was a hidden organized faction, but remained NPC, and Independent players could just work their way into the Cult's good graces (role-playing opportunities here) and do "jobs" for them?  In that way they could support one or more "evil" factions without actually being members.

Somewhere in the reports (I forget where) we designed a section for rumors to show up, which would be a fine place for this kind of information.

[Davin]

Ahhh if you make them appear as Independent to others on Scouting reports, and allowing them to hide in cities altogether I think I could have a great time as a Cult player.  Plus the Ambush bonus would be great as well too. Just think of the Chaios that could be had with that, I think by best buddies the Bandits, Pirates, and SOA would be awesome allies.

If they really are Independent (as I suggested) then they could promote that faction at the same time as Bandits/SOA/etc without having actually declared for any of them.  They'd better play well to not get caught, though.

Also, my thought is that anyone should be able to Ambush, if they thought they could get away with it.  We might work out conditional bonuses for it, though.

When "working for" a hidden group, you might help by providing "assistants" to take care of errands for them.  Perhaps they might need an obstinate storekeeper to be strong-armed into cooperation, or a message to be passed that a civilian better perform a task for them "or else", etc.  There's any number of underhanded things that a player interested in such factions could perform.

[DreamWeaver]

Ok having them show up as "Independent" clans on scouting reports would I think work extremely effective, and this would counter one of Davin's fears that everyone would hunt them down.  so the benefits could be rewritten to be:

Benefits:
1)The Cult can Ambush other clans. This would make them Shadows in the Dark and extremely dangerous. Fear would make people do what is asked of them, or else be killed. Remember this faction is called: The Cult of the Dark One. This faction wouldn't be combat army types, but within a city, they would be feared to be in every shadow. 
2)They would appear as an Independent clan when encountered on a scouting report.
3) Within a city they could appear hidden, thus not being located or seen on a scouting report within a city, if the clan's size is less than 20% of what the city population actually is. Example 20,000 pop city, would mean if the Cult clan is less than 2,000 retainers they would remain hidden to anyone coming to the city and not know that they are even within the city.

I also feel that a Cult Shrine would be hidden within any city it is built within. I like the note on the back of the CVR, of "Rumor is said that there is a Hidden Cult Shrine within the city". This all words to add a sense of mystery and intrigue to the whole faction and character that fits with the faction.

Or what if the Cult was a hidden organized faction, but remained NPC, and Independent players could just work their way into the Cult's good graces (role-playing opportunities here) and do "jobs" for them?  In that way they could support one or more "evil" factions without actually being members.

Somewhere in the reports (I forget where) we designed a section for rumors to show up, which would be a fine place for this kind of information.

Davin, call me slow because why would anyone want to remain as a "Independent"? You can't gain rank and you get like 200/400 Independent Influence a turn. So what, what is the point in remaining "Independent"? I just don't see the value, you have no support and no backing at all. Why bother?  The reason why rank is important, lets say you have a ORA - Oratory skill, and the higher you rank is the more effective your ORATORY (Political not Religious PRE-Preach) effectiveness will be.
I think you could play a effective Cult clan and have a lot of fun at it. The Cult requires a character that really want to roleplay and play a rather challenging  faction, but if you give them all the perks we have defined they would be able to successfully be able to play this type of challenge quite well.

[Davin]

Well, that's a good question.  Lets ignore influence for now (as I have some thoughts to discuss about that in the future) and look at your rank complaint.  First off, weren't you previously telling me that rank didn't really mean anything (unless you were a senior)?

If instead of rank affecting skills why not just have your skill level affect your effectiveness?  If we do that (or something similar), then of what use would your rank actually be?  Do you NEED to be increasing in rank if you're not trying to progress politically toward senior positions?  What do we want to do with it?

[DreamWeaver]

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[TheDarkSide]

As I understand it I thought a Clans Rank in most cases had nothing to do with most skills except like Preach or Oratory. Now in those cases, a higher-ranked clan would be more effective than a lower-ranked clan. Most skill, however, had nothing to do with a clan's rank in a faction. Also wasn't there something to do with a clan's renown too. I am not the best one to talk on these matters, others whom have far more knowledge on this I hope will dig into this matter.

[DreamWeaver]

Most likely this will change when Davin recodes the game. A clan's Rank and Renown did have effects on different matters, but that now may be set up differently by Davin as the new code is worked out within this new recoded version of Midgard.

Who knows, even Davin might not be 100% sure yet until the code is fully worked out yet.