A new set of thoughts on how to bring Midgard back

[FutureSojourner]

OK here are some ideas on how to stop abuses...

 - At game start allow only (3) clans to start with in play
 - Require everyone Declare a Primary Faction that they support and will be the main clan within the game.
 - For those players that want to pursue Seniorship, the player must declare all (3) clans in their declared Primary Faction. If they do this, they gain a 1 time bonus for each clan. The bonus should be: (100) Retainers, (5,000) Crowns, (2,000) Influence in their declared primary faction.
 - After (6) months of game play, they can add (+3) more clans, but not in any enemy factions.  Example" (3) Gift clans as declared primary faction, then adds (+1) Ring, (+1) OOH, (+1) SOA.
 - Make players roleplay with their faction to get to know their faction, and their faction get to know them too.

I like this plan.

[Davin]

Hmmm...  just recently it didn't sound like several of you would want to play in just one faction, effectively forever, since you were listing the factions you wanted to play in simultaneously.  And what about creating new factions?  That would practically eliminate that possibility.

I don't think I want to lock (benefited) players into just doing one thing for the entire game.  That doesn't sound like as much fun as being able to try out other things from time to time for some variety.

I'm trying to think up ideas about how to limit the dissemination of a faction's "secret" information to see if that would get us anywhere.  For instance, if only rank 15 and up were privileged to participate in "secret" plans or missions somehow, then we could restrict cousins to only a single faction over that rank but let them play lower-rank clans elsewhere (particularly in "friendly" factions, however we manage to define that).

[DreamWeaver]

Ok I talked long with Oliver and the two of us agree...

To begin with for all the players that play through the Beta Test and help you bring this game live again, we feel you should give everyone a bonus of:

200 Retainers, 15,000 Crowns, 2,000 Influence to the player's main clan

Next make everyone declare a main faction that they will play within. Now if a player chooses to play all (3) clans in just their Main Declared faction, then they will get another bonus for each of their 3x clans of:

100 Retainer, 5,000 Crowns, 2,000 Influence.

Now if players choose to NOT start all of their (3)clans in the same faction, then they get NOTHING!!! Also only players that play (3) clans within the same declared faction, only those players can become seniors within that Main Declared faction. Now anyone that decides to play all (3) clans within the same faction, do not need to become seniors but they have the choice to do that.

After (6) months of game play, then those players have the option to add up to (1-3) more clans. These new clans can either be in their same declared Main faction or they can join other factions that are not direct enemies of each other. The objection of the GM is not valid. The Imperials will NEVER EVER be friends with the Barbarians and Boda. The One True God faiths(Banner/Gift/Ring/OOH) will NEVER EVER be friends with the B&F, Serkeanar, and Cult of the Dark One.  These relationships never change, never have never will. The others are grey in relations. Start a relationship table and just update it if something changes and let the players know. You can also only allow cousin clans in other factions only get to rank 15 as well too. Honestly a clans Rank within a faction does mean anything, as it never has in the past.

As for seniors, I have talked to a number of players and it would be far better for you and the game, to get players as seniors from the beginning.  Those players that have served as seniors before and desire to do it again, interview them and let them be the seniors in their declared main factions. It will be a lot easier to recruite old players and new players to the game. Just make them the seniors, all the players that go through the Beta-Test are mostly Die-Hard and were former Seniors from before. Just make them seniors again and lets get this ball rolling. It would be esier for you and the game, to just do it. Also we believe you should also allow that senior to also pick up a sigle declared factional declared city and just spread their (3) clans near that city for them to play. We need to get this game up and running as soon as possible.

[Davin]

I have no problems giving out bonuses similar to those for reasons like those you mentioned.  I just don't think that bonuses by themselves are going to combat abusers.

The way I figure enemies is that everyone will be an enemy of the NPC "factions", so there's no point in mentioning those as "can't ever be aligned with".

As for the Imps, I thought the idea was to make them more "friendly" in this version, especially to the families - are you saying that the Boda should continue to be an exception to this better-behaved structure?

I know that rank hasn't been much used in the past, but I was wondering if that could be made useful somehow.  Perhaps instead of declaring a primary faction you would get that automatically when your first clan achieved some particular rank, for instance.  If we wanted, we could also allow the faction to reward clans in some way as they rise through the ranks.  We've talked about disallowing regiments for some period of time, for instance, and that might be tied to rank (e.g. only Rank <= 10 is permitted to command regiments).  Since rank tells us something about how much they're promoting a faction's interest and how long they've been at it, it sounded like a good way to add factional benefits or remove restrictions in general.

I agree about having seniors early - I've been planning on having some of the "old hands" play as seniors (or senior pro tem) from early on.  I don't want to have to deal with those responsibilities myself and you guys have the experience we need.

[Davin]

However, what are you going to do about players that insist on abusing the system (bonuses notwithstanding) and use cousin clans to spy on competing factions?  Anyone that's willing to behave that way (which does not include the serious players) isn't going to be concerned about losing bonuses at all - they're just there to mess up anything they can reach.

One thing I don't much like and probably won't work terribly well is to tell factions (seniors or perhaps others) what other factions their clans have cousins in.  At least that would let them know where an information leak might occur.

[DreamWeaver]

Davin I play the game to have fun, play in character, and play with others that become my friends. I have always tried to play within character and try to not take advantage of the system. For me I will Declare my Primary Faction to be "Seeker" so all (3) clans will be Seeker. Then when I can I will pick up a City Leader position for a Seeker city if I can. Then when I can add +3 more clans, I will most likely add (2) Cymru clans and (1) Gift clan. This is or will be my game play I will follow, but this is me. I can't speak for those that might be of low character, they have to reflect on their own selves in the end. If it becomes discovered by in-game seniors and more importantly the GM, then that will be reacted too.

[Davin]

Yeah, it's just a matter of having a way to notice such poor behavior. Maybe we'll get lucky and nobody will want to bother acting up. But being a programmer I'm constantly on the lookout for loopholes.

[Davin]

Davin I play the game to have fun, play in character, and play with others that become my friends. I have always tried to play within character and try to not take advantage of the system. For me I will Declare my Primary Faction to be "Seeker" so all (3) clans will be Seeker. Then when I can I will pick up a City Leader position for a Seeker city if I can. Then when I can add +3 more clans, I will most likely add (2) Cymru clans and (1) Gift clan. This is or will be my game play I will follow, but this is me. I can't speak for those that might be of low character, they have to reflect on their own selves in the end. If it becomes discovered by in-game seniors and more importantly the GM, then that will be reacted too.

In your example, would you expect to rise to high-ranking (not necessarily senior) positions in the Cymru or Gift, or would you just play those as minor clans running around having fun?

If we can solve the problem of abuse neatly (which I doubt) then I don't see any reason for allowing even more clans per player (provided they can keep up with them).

[FutureSojourner]

Ok I talked long with Oliver and the two of us agree...

To begin with for all the players that play through the Beta Test and help you bring this game live again, we feel you should give everyone a bonus of:

200 Retainers, 15,000 Crowns, 2,000 Influence to the player's main clan

Next make everyone declare a main faction that they will play within. Now if a player chooses to play all (3) clans in just their Main Declared faction, then they will get another bonus for each of their 3x clans of:

100 Retainer, 5,000 Crowns, 2,000 Influence.

Now if players choose to NOT start all of their (3)clans in the same faction, then they get NOTHING!!! Also only players that play (3) clans within the same declared faction, only those players can become seniors within that Main Declared faction. Now anyone that decides to play all (3) clans within the same faction, do not need to become seniors but they have the choice to do that.

After (6) months of game play, then those players have the option to add up to (1-3) more clans. These new clans can either be in their same declared Main faction or they can join other factions that are not direct enemies of each other. The objection of the GM is not valid. The Imperials will NEVER EVER be friends with the Barbarians and Boda. The One True God faiths(Banner/Gift/Ring/OOH) will NEVER EVER be friends with the B&F, Serkeanar, and Cult of the Dark One.  These relationships never change, never have never will. The others are grey in relations. Start a relationship table and just update it if something changes and let the players know. You can also only allow cousin clans in other factions only get to rank 15 as well too. Honestly a clans Rank within a faction does mean anything, as it never has in the past.

As for seniors, I have talked to a number of players and it would be far better for you and the game, to get players as seniors from the beginning.  Those players that have served as seniors before and desire to do it again, interview them and let them be the seniors in their declared main factions. It will be a lot easier to recruite old players and new players to the game. Just make them the seniors, all the players that go through the Beta-Test are mostly Die-Hard and were former Seniors from before. Just make them seniors again and lets get this ball rolling. It would be esier for you and the game, to just do it. Also we believe you should also allow that senior to also pick up a sigle declared factional declared city and just spread their (3) clans near that city for them to play. We need to get this game up and running as soon as possible.

I agree with everything Penn has written here, and think it is a good idea to have seniors start out and beta test the game.  It will make recruiting friends and others much easier.

Oliver

[FutureSojourner]

However, what are you going to do about players that insist on abusing the system (bonuses notwithstanding) and use cousin clans to spy on competing factions?  Anyone that's willing to behave that way (which does not include the serious players) isn't going to be concerned about losing bonuses at all - they're just there to mess up anything they can reach.

One thing I don't much like and probably won't work terribly well is to tell factions (seniors or perhaps others) what other factions their clans have cousins in.  At least that would let them know where an information leak might occur.

Part of me thinks "so what" about spies.  The fun of the game is politics, power gaming, and deal-making.  I think there should be some parameters -- such as Imperials shouldn't play Barbarians or a OTG player shouldn't also be a Blood and Fire player... unless there was a good reason (and there could be).  Letting the players figure things out is what makes the game fun. I think we *might* be spending too much time focusing on this when it may just work itself out.  Players will talk.  I remember being on the phone with people talking about various plans in-game over the years.  I still think about stuff from when I played 20 years ago.  This game was one of the best gaming experiences I have ever had -- and that was barely a turn a month.  And for a while, it was often just a few a year.  The seniors will take care of things and if they don't there is always the veto of the #0.