Factional Redesign of The Gift

[Davin]

It's still "magic" and not based on scientific principles (even unknown).  And what then happens to all the other religions?  They're going to ask for "favors" from their gods, as well, aren't they?  And what about any new religion that starts up from nothing - what will they demand that they have?

Do you see how this could get out of control?

[DreamWeaver]

I'd be worried about adding "real magic" to a game that's based on a time in our history and such things didn't exist.  I'd also worry that if we start down that path then players might want lots of magical things added for what they feel is justifiable reasons.  This would drastically change the flavor of the game, and I'm not sure everyone would welcome it.  It would also have the potential to seriously disturb game balance.  I think I'd need some serious convincing that such a thing would benefit the whole game system.

WHAT are you saying that Magic is all a LIE?

Are you saying that the Power of the Ring Religion is False and just BS?

So then your saying that The One True God is a false God and doesn't really exist. That would mean that the three religions are all BS. All the Gods are just made up tales in-order to control us. We have all been lied to.. . we should burn all the religions temples to the ground and kill all the religious liers!

And get that Rulebook too and that GM behind the curtain too...<LMAO>!!!

[DreamWeaver]

It's still "magic" and not based on scientific principles (even unknown).  And what then happens to all the other religions?  They're going to ask for "favors" from their gods, as well, aren't they?  And what about any new religion that starts up from nothing - what will they demand that they have?

Do you see how this could get out of control?

Well as I have already stated and defined for the current three religions you cold make the Holy Faith Power based off of that faiths prinicipal and teachings like:

Gift - Healing

Ring - Divination

Banner - Bless

Make the players figure it out what would work, it kind of makes it all part of the design a faction thing fun. Maybe those that define the Blood & Fire might deside on Fear  for their God given power?

[FutureSojourner]

It's still "magic" and not based on scientific principles (even unknown).  And what then happens to all the other religions?  They're going to ask for "favors" from their gods, as well, aren't they?  And what about any new religion that starts up from nothing - what will they demand that they have?

Do you see how this could get out of control?

Well as I have already stated and defined for the current three religions you cold make the Holy Faith Power based off of that faiths prinicipal and teachings like:

Gift - Healing

Ring - Divination

Banner - Bless

Make the players figure it out what would work, it kind of makes it all part of the design a faction thing fun. Maybe those that define the Blood & Fire might deside on Fear  for their God given power?

[Davin]

Hey, I love sword and sorcery stories, but just how far are you willing to stray into that territory with a Medieval game that's technologically based on a historical time period?

[DreamWeaver]

At the core Midgard is a FANTASY based game that is BASED on a like Earth's technologically from an historical time period.

Having defined Magic that is based on the God's would be exceptable. Look at it from the aspect that not everyone that plays a religion clan would have the ability of their faith to do their faith's special ability. They have to earn it in game and that means searching in game and training up the levels of those skills to become worthy of being granted the special God given ability. Let's use the Gift, they have the special God given ability to Healing. Now when the Gift clan starts off they have the basic skills of PRE, HRB, ATP. That gives them the knowledge to begin to understand and how to do medical skills to help someone. Now if that same character wants to strive to actually obtain the God gven spell ability to Lay Hands, they must purse factional based knowledge in some related factional skills to say level 5 (PRE-5,HRB-5, APT-5). When a clan character reach that level for a character within their game, then that character gains the God given faith spell ability. Quite frankly that would take 3-5 years of constant game play to reach those skills levels in those three skills. The gained special perk would not over power anything in the game, it is more of a roleplaying point and character building element for the player of that clan.

Davin if you have a player that makes it 5+ years to reach that level, then you have a die-hard Midgard gamer and have succeeded. This game will never by D&D, and difining this magic as God Given explains it. As to new religions starting up, well it just requires those players to work out the details with you. Find that niche that their faith fiits in a a god given spell ability that works for that factional faith. Here are some examples:

GIFT - Healing
RING - Divination
BANNER - Bless

BLOOD & FIRE - Fear
CULT of the DARK ONE - Invisibility

As I stated all these special spell abilities can be cast on a single character, creature, item once a cycle by the character that has achieved their God's special level of Faith.  These are really only Special Action related skills that would be moderated by the GM in any use case. This just adds to the color of playing the game and roleplaying your clan that you have spent so long in game and paying to play your turn. Is it really that much extra, I don't think so at all. Yes this is magic within the game but honestly how many players do you seriously thing will ever reach this level.

I should also point out that much of what I am bringing up is from my long talks on the topic with former game owners of Midgard game like Zan E., the two different UK Midgard versions owners of (Andy and Stephine W.) and Jon Capps. As Jon has said this would only open up a chance for a GM to actually engage with the long standing player and roleplay more with the player and get involved more with the player and his roleplay within the game. This would allow the GM to also have some interaction fun to with their game and the players within the game.

[FutureSojourner]

For the record, I HATE the idea of compartmentalized religions, such as has been proposed. I don't like this "D&D" approach to the religions.

Such as the Gift - Healing, Ring - Divination, et al.

The religions should be ecosystems of religious insight that develop uniqueness over time. The Gift has always been good at building, it how their faith in the One True God evolved over time. The Ring have been diviners because their uniqueness manifested in a specific way. All religions, at least of the One True God should have the ability to heal. That should be the common denominator that holds them together as believers in the One True God and reflects their common origin. The Gift should be good builders because they focus their efforts on being builder, their theology of the OTG focuses on creation and innovation. The Ring focus on potential and the future and therefore are blessed with insight. The Banner has a zeal for evangelism and spreading the faith of the OTG and excel at physical prowess. I prefer for the religions (and all factions) to have a logical explanation for their Factional perks that make sense and honor the continuity of the story as it has been told since the game started.

[DreamWeaver]

Let me point out a few facts...

FIRST: Within this version of the game, the game GM/Owner Davin has decided that he is taking out of play the city building of "Hospital". That means there is NO general medical services or healing aid to the peoples of Midgard.

SECOND: Within this version of Midgard the Serkeanar Religion Faction does not exist, in Midgard USA  under Zan E. it was a Religion that was given Healing/Medical power, after Zan took that power/ability away from the Gift religion.

THIRD: Talking to Jon Capps, whom recoded the Midgard game and then sold a copy of the game code to Midgard USA/Zan E. The Gift Religion as was designed had BOTH the the power of Construction/Building and Healing. Under Zan E of Midgard USA, he took away the Healing ability from the Gift and gave it to the newly designed faction of the Serkeanar.

FORTH: I know Oliver you think every religion should have Healing, but that does not happen within this game. Now their are two skills that would grant or give you medical skills knowledge. Those skills are HRB - Herbalism, and APH - Apothecary both of which I have proposed as skills for the Gift. The former MED - Medical skill was gotten rid of by Davin the GM.  So I guess if someone else obtained both of these two skills then they could learn medical skill of heal much as our doctors of today.

FIFTH: Since I am proposing a Holy Power of God granted Faith Magic, and stating that to earn that ability a character would need to  get the following skill set: PRE-5,HRB-5,APH-5. To obtain that it would take a player 4.5 years of in game play at the least to get that if one game startup they gave themselves PRE-2,HRB-2,APH. Honestly even once a character gained that God grant power, it would not be over powering or etc. If you have a player that is willing to pay to play for 4.5 years then  so what, that player has earned that small roleplaying perck that really can only be used in Special Actions.

This is not a D&D model, it is a true game based Midgardism.

[Davin]

Hmmm...  (scratching head)  Some of my biggest concerns have to do with game balance, and right now I can see both good and bad points on both sides.

For instance, if religions have one or more powers that are valuable (and relatively easy to acquire), then why would players prefer to play in the non-religious factions where they have no such powers?  Wouldn't the religions become bloated with clans looking for that edge in their play?

OTOH, if the powers are exceptionally difficult to obtain, then why should most clans be bothered with them at all?  Most people wouldn't want to put forth the extreme time and effort needed to reach such lofty levels and therefore the power might as well not be available (as far as most players are concerned).

I kinda think it'd be better to have a moderately-valuable power for each faction, and one that is easy to acquire when in that faction, and for all the factions to have both strengths and weaknesses.  Then players can choose factions based on what they think sounds like more fun rather than being able to "get more" out of one faction than another.

Does that make any kind of sense?

[DreamWeaver]

Well in the case of the Gift, from the beginning they would have the Construction/Building ability. Thus the reason they can run (4) Construction projects is because the LDR,F1,F2,F3 all have ENG-1 skill. Now as to the Healing, well if they want to obtain that special perk, they have to earn it in-game and that means they must do the hard work of training in factional skills and staying within character to get it. Now once they get that special perk, for in game purposes it dosn't add up to a lot, but in Roleplaying character purposes it is huge. Basically for those that want to roleplay it is a major success, but those that are not willing to truly roleplay in character it isn't important. Basically that means that the players are just be using their Gift clan as a construction only purposes and really don't care about the rest.