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+---- Thread: A new set of thoughts on how to bring Midgard back (/showthread.php?tid=130675)
RE: A new set of thoughts on how to bring Midgard back - Dark Shadows - 02-14-2020
(02-14-2020, 05:09 AM)Davin Wrote: Hmmm... Well, let me think on that some more. An all-NPC faction wouldn't be terribly hard for me to GM because they don't need to be "smart". Most of what they do is just designed to provoke conflicts and that can be easily automated. But I'll grant you that some players might want to play in that arena. It's just that it makes my job a lot harder (both up-front and in-game), rather than easier.
And if I have NPC clans/groups (in either kind of faction), how do I get them to play in concert with the players without hand-running every one of them (which, of course, I don't have time for). Aren't NPC clans also responsible for their activities to their seniors and the factional goals?
Harassment by NPCs, BTW, will probably require political arrangements/negotiations to get others to help find or deal with them. If you're a city and the bandits are disrupting your construction work and you can't continue with them present, have you really got the resources to stop them yourself?
Ok, let's explore Independents from the Midgard Rulebook:
![[Image: Independents-01.png]](https://i.postimg.cc/136KjX8p/Independents-01.png)
![[Image: Independents-02.png]](https://i.postimg.cc/4d3Vsxx2/Independents-02.png)
So let's look at the Bandit (I have played one very successfully within the game of the past):
So most of the time the clan lived and traveled the world appearing as an Independent clan but when I went into Bandit Mode, I had a clan Allias (which I would show up as a declared Bandit clan, the clan number would be different, and the clan name would also be changed to what I set it to.
That was the main bonus, along with the "Ambush Bonus" perk they got. This perk bonus allows Bandit declared clans to get the surprise jump first attack on a "target" clan they set up to attack. I was very good at this and would first scout out a good ambush location to start with. Then plan out what I would do in the way of a battle plan. Then sit and wait for my target to fall into my trap.
For me after the attack, was the fun later when I would send a 3x5 note to the victim clan from the bogus alias clan number. My note usually was something like this:
" Catch me if you can...' Savoir-Faire (Sabwafare) is everywhere'. Thank you for the cheese, please bring more next time. See you in the Midgard Times funny papers. <wave>,<wave> ,<kiss>,<kiss> "
I would usually attack a clan killing some retainers, raid their baggage trains(stealing their stuff like crowns, resources and etc) and getaway. Then follow up with a taunting 3x5 card just to rub it in. Now that was fun and then return back to my old clan's real name and number appearing as an Independent clan.
There is a lot of work that goes into playing a declared bandit clan. There was also constant work with special actions looking for contacts and new marks. It helps to get a benefactor or sponsor to work with. So mostly I was working alone but sometimes I was connected to others mostly NPCs. Yes certain factions like the SOA would work with you as well too, plus other factions would also work out deals to work for them against others. Isn't that term a "Freebooter" or "Merc"?
So as I said I was a declared Bandit but just appeared to be an Independent clan. The same is true for a "Pirate" declared clan too. Allowing players to play these was both fun and exciting. Now the Heretic declared clan was a slightly different focus but also fun as well too.
Note: As it is now if we had access to all factions I would most likely play (3) Seeker clans to begin with, but then I would consider playing clans in SOA, Bandits, Pirates, Buccaneers and even the Cult. Normally I would say Cymru, but they are the People's Defenders and they would be against Bandits, Pirates at the least.
RE: A new set of thoughts on how to bring Midgard back - DreamWeaver - 02-14-2020
As listed in the above post of "Dark Shadows" the "Heretic" classification is what I used two different times:
Within Midgard USA under Zan E., I was in the process of creating a faction that was called "Seekers of Faith" which was a faith based on the Old Gods found on Midgard. It was a faith of the collected old gods that were Earth, Sky, Fire, Water, Society, and Knowledge (which Moorlock was Old God of Knowledge). All the players that were with me to stand up this faction (10 Players with 20 declared Heretic clans) were using that Heretic faction for one year.
Within Midgard UK under Stephen Wier, I was working on standing up "The Cult of the Dark One". We had just started working towards that goal, it was a NPC faction within the game for Midgard USA and Midgard UK but we were bringing it Live/Open in the game for players to actually declare for and play as a active Live PC faction.
It has been pointed out that the Cult has aided in standing up and being a benefactor for both the Cymru - Peoples Defender in Midgard USA, and the Seekers of Knowledge in Midgard UK. In both cases the Cult aided each of these factions to get started and then backed away to let them both grow on their own.
I view the Heretic faction as a roleplaying one. It is used to open the door to build other new religions faiths within the game. So it should be available.
RE: A new set of thoughts on how to bring Midgard back - FutureSojourner - 02-15-2020
Where can I get a copy of the rules, as they are now? I'm going off of memory from a game that I have not played in 20 years.
However, I have started to "daydream" about Midgard again. This is a good thing, so let's make sure this happens. I want Midgard again!
Oliver
RE: A new set of thoughts on how to bring Midgard back - DreamWeaver - 02-15-2020
Oliver, I can send you a copy of Midgard USA - Zan's Rules, and a copy of Midgard UK - Stephen Weir's Rules
RE: A new set of thoughts on how to bring Midgard back - Dark Shadows - 02-15-2020
I would love the option to play a "declared Bandit" again. The GM couple also do that too, but it is just another playing option for us players.
RE: A new set of thoughts on how to bring Midgard back - TheDarkSide - 02-16-2020
I feel the GM should always have the option to spin up an NPC clan in any faction to be used as needed. Maybe there should be some flag that sets the clan in a faction but does not appear on the senior reports as a clan in the faction. Ths NPC clans would be unknow to only those that actually encounter them,
RE: A new set of thoughts on how to bring Midgard back - Davin - 02-16-2020
(02-14-2020, 11:01 AM)FutureSojourner Wrote: As a scholar of religion (in the real world), I don't like the idea of lumping Heretics, Blood and Fire, Serkeanar, and maybe even the Cult of the Dark One into the "evil" category. You can "spin" the 'theology' of any of these religions in such a way that they could paint the OTG as evil and place themselves in a righteous position. Where I think "unplayability" comes into play is when a faction refuses to work with others -- that is what should make them NPC material. If the goals of a faction is to be THE ONLY religion and destroy every other Religion and force every other faction to bend to their will that (in my opinion) makes them unplayable as a player faction -- the faction would be isolated and unable to play the "political game." But using a Good vs Evil dichotomy in the game with some factions being "Good" and others being "Evil" is too black and white ignores all the beautiful shades of grey.
True enough, but I was trying to use "good/evil" and "good/bad" in the most generic of ways (which is why I kept putting it in quotes). Perhaps it could be better described (much like you indicated) that "bad" was for groups that don't want to get along with anyone (possibly with the exception of groups effectively like their own). If a faction is intent on "evil" (i.e. causing harm to everyone else), then to me that qualifies as not being a good faction for players. And that's what I'm trying to keep separated out.
See also my previous note about organized factions sounding reasonably playable, even those that were mostly in opposition to most players' behaviors.
RE: A new set of thoughts on how to bring Midgard back - Davin - 02-16-2020
(02-15-2020, 02:44 PM)FutureSojourner Wrote: Where can I get a copy of the rules, as they are now? I'm going off of memory from a game that I have not played in 20 years.
Visit my "sample reports" page at <www.talisman-games.com/midgard/samples> and there you can find a (poor) copy of the rules that I'm basing the new code on (to start with). It's one of the more recent manuals I was given, though I'm sure several others were available from Zan's or the UK game with different changes in them. We'll talk about those possibilities as options when I'm further along.
I think all the discussions we've been having here will go a long way to rewriting the manual, as well, so keep it coming guys.
RE: A new set of thoughts on how to bring Midgard back - Davin - 02-16-2020
(02-14-2020, 03:47 PM)Dark Shadows Wrote: So let's look at the Bandit (I have played one very successfully within the game of the past):
So most of the time the clan lived and traveled the world appearing as an Independent clan but when I went into Bandit Mode, I had a clan Allias (which I would show up as a declared Bandit clan, the clan number would be different, and the clan name would also be changed to what I set it to.
That was the main bonus, along with the "Ambush Bonus" perk they got. This perk bonus allows Bandit declared clans to get the surprise jump first attack on a "target" clan they set up to attack. I was very good at this and would first scout out a good ambush location to start with. Then plan out what I would do in the way of a battle plan. Then sit and wait for my target to fall into my trap.
I hear you, and we can discuss it. But let me bring up another possibility...
I'd been thinking long ago about the bandit's "alias" ability and wondering why it had to be so limited. Could not pretty much any clan (especially Independents) set up an alias under which to operate anonymously whenever desired? Of course, most factional leadership would be unhappy with this and would likely take punitive action if they were caught operating that way. (And spies might be able to break almost anyone's cover identity, anyway, so it's not going to be particularly safe overall.)
It may be a little too loose to impersonate other factions as well, and if so then perhaps an aliased clan would always appear as Independent. (You'd need some serious spycraft to impersonate another clan, I'd think.) This also means that anyone wanting to remain Independent might well be widely regarded with some suspicion, not only because their allegiance is unknown but also because they may be "in disguise". This also gives an additional reason for clans to declare with a faction - it's safer from a public-relations point of view.
So what's wrong with allowing pretty much anyone to operate with an alias?
RE: A new set of thoughts on how to bring Midgard back - Davin - 02-16-2020
(02-14-2020, 06:59 PM)DreamWeaver Wrote: Within Midgard UK under Stephen Wier, I was working on standing up "The Cult of the Dark One". We had just started working towards that goal, it was a NPC faction within the game for Midgard USA and Midgard UK but we were bringing it Live/Open in the game for players to actually declare for and play as a active Live PC faction.
It has been pointed out that the Cult has aided in standing up and being a benefactor for both the Cymru - Peoples Defender in Midgard USA, and the Seekers of Knowledge in Midgard UK. In both cases the Cult aided each of these factions to get started and then backed away to let them both grow on their own.
I view the Heretic faction as a roleplaying one. It is used to open the door to build other new religions faiths within the game. So it should be available.
If I allow factions to exist without any particular declared clans restriction, then why can't new factions (religious and secular) be started with little more than GM permission? Who needs to have all the extra time/clans that used to be required? Of course we'd still need the usual goals and such to be well-defined and significantly different than any of the other factions, and at least a starting clan to jump in and "run" it.
So why not let new factions appear spontaneously without a "jumping off" faction like Heretics to come from?