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PBM Gaming: Expanding the Beachhead - GrimFinger - 04-04-2011
As I go about the task of creating new articles and editorials for our PBM related site, here, I often find myself wondering what I should write about?
Invariably, many of my articles and editorials touch upon some of the same things. I often find myself saying the same things, over and over and over again - albeit perhaps in a way worded somewhat differently than the time before.
As I emphasize and re-emphasize that PBM isn't dead, hearing that echo may or may not annoy those of you who bother to take time out to pause and read what I write on the subject. But, consider this, if you will: To persuade people to take up the PBM gauntlet, it might be helpful if they start their consideration of that proposition with the belief that PBM is not already dead.
I also have to overcome Internet-based obstacles that take the form of prior pronouncements by others - the self-anointed seers and prophets of play by mail - that PBM is either dead or dying. PBM's death knell was sounded decades ago, during the height of play by mail gaming's golden era. So, from my perspective, the deck is pretty well stacked against me from the get-go.
There's also a lot of Internet noise that must be overcome. Doing a web search for the search phrase "pbm" just now, Google yields a Wikipedia disambiguation page as the very first item listed in its search for that phrase. Both Yahoo! and Bing search engines yield a non-play by mail item for their first place items in their respective searches for the very same search phrase. So, what's a guy like me to do?
If the Internet is to be a battleground for the future of play by mail gaming - arguably even THE battleground, then PBM is going to have to fight for every inch of Internet territory. In the grand sum of things, PlayByMail.Net is but merely a beachhead in PBM's counter-attack on the gaming world.
Ours is a small beachhead. Very small, in fact. In this conflict, we are at considerable disadvantage. If, however, nearly everyone and their brother (of those who have actually heard of PBM's existence, in the first place) thinks that PBM gaming is long dead and buried, then I think that it stands to reason that we may realistically enjoy the element of surprise.
Our beachhead is established. It is growing. Now, we are merely awaiting the arrival of reinforcements. Granted, they may not get here in time to save either us or this beachhead, or they may even never arrive, at all. But, what matters is that WE are here. If the situation appears utterly hopeless, then all the better - for we won't suffer under any delusion of the possibility of success. What better time could you ask for, gentlemen and ladies of the PBM gaming world, to invade the gaming world?
Now, some of you may be thinking, "Hey, Charles, it's a delicate situation that we've got here." So what? Do you like PBM gaming suffering under the seemingly eternal burden of being a dead niche of gaming? Hey, it may or may not be a niche, but if it is, then it's OUR niche!
I'm not trying to conquer the gaming world. Where would be the fun in that? No, what I'm after is an expansion of our existing territory, with "our" referring to PBM gaming.
Just think of it as a bug hunt, and you'll be fine, kid.
RE: PBM Gaming: Expanding the Beachhead - JonO - 04-04-2011
PBM as it was, lost its customers because they decided they could get more of what had attracted them to PBM, elsewhere. We can talk about the joy of anticipation, but to me thats making a virtue of a handicap. Back when I was a player, I had carefully arranged my turn submissions so that I received one every day. Usually that meant going home for lunch, filling out the turn sheet and mailing it at the Post Office on the same day so I could get it back 7 days later. (The minute Reagan ended Sunday hours at the Post Office, 7 day turnaround was a dead duck.) Most PBM players I knew ran multiple turns each week either in the same game, or in more than one so they could work around the interminable wait between turn and return.
Muds grew in popularity during the same time that PBMs were fading away, in part because there was no wait and in part because communication between players could happen simultaneously, not after the fact. Social games like Second Life have gone a step further down the road of community, while MMORPGs started out being called "graphical MUDs and were also the logical outgrowth of the text-based games that were first available on GEnie and AOL.
All of these formats took advantage of the internet, which is becoming the preferred method of communication for most English-speaking people with enough disposable income and/or time to spend on gaming. Meanwhile very few PBMs had the resources to rethink their entire delivery medium. (I was seduced away after 9 years because my player base was dwindling and there was a lot more money to be made writing software for businesses, especially as 2K approached.)
To me, Play by Mail wasn't about waiting 7 - 10 days to get a turn back, it wasn't about having gigantic phone-bills talking with my allies, and while it certainly was about cranking out a newsletter for my alliance, most of what was in it was way out of date by the time it reached its readers (all 12 of them.)
It was about role-playing - notice how much role-playing you and Ix are doing with a game that really doesn't offer that much support for it. It was about working out strategies to accomplish goals that either I created for myself and with my friends or that the game created for me or us - i.e. it was about winning.
These days, I pay my bills on line, I buy most non foodstuffs/clothing on-line, I read entire books on line, and watch movies on line. I WM two non-gaming community websites and participate in three or four more regularly. Almost all of my personal communication with family and friends is by email. Hell, I file my taxes on line. I cannot imagine a circumstance whereby I would want to play by mail when I don't even pay by mail anymore.
What PBMs that survived the avalanche of internet gaming did so by, at the least, becoming primarily PBeM, and or becoming PBW like BSE-Phoenix. I don't see that becoming less true as the price of mailing continues to soar, the postal service continues to slow down, and the ubiquity of the internet and internet communication becomes greater. 25 years ago, I suspect that you would have started a magazine like David Webber or Nicky Palmer did. Instead you started a website and are extremely interested in its search engine rankings, because you know that the Internet is the way people communicate these days.
If the concept of PBM is to make a comeback - and I sure hope it does - it will be because new designers utilize today's technology to offer gamers what appealed to gamers about PBM 25 years ago. What those games will look like may be very different. How players interact with the game and the other gamers will be different in method, but similar in content. But the fun and excitement will be pretty much what it used to be. . . I hope.
RE: PBM Gaming: Expanding the Beachhead - Gads - 04-05-2011
Nice post JonO
For my money, you are 100% on the mark. It's nice to talk about the past from time to time, but surely it is time to accept the Internet has replaced the postal system and lets start talking about the exciting times ahead of us.
RE: PBM Gaming: Expanding the Beachhead - GrimFinger - 04-05-2011
(04-05-2011, 04:17 AM)Gads Wrote: Nice post JonO
For my money, you are 100% on the mark. It's nice to talk about the past from time to time, but surely it is time to accept the Internet has replaced the postal system and lets start talking about the exciting times ahead of us.
I'm certainly not aware that anything precludes discussions of either the Internet and its capabilities for acting as a conduit or medium for gaming, or the exciting times ahead of you, Sean.
I would not agree, however, that the Internet has replaced the postal system. If that were the case, then I could get rid of my mailbox at the end of my front yard. The Internet and the postal service co-exist, side by side. I will likely be long dead and buried, before the postal service fades into non-existence. Furthermore, de-monopolizing the postal service could well re-energize it. Until and if that happens, we simply won't know, for sure. The Internet isn't going away, to be certain, but neither is the postal service, anytime soon.
RE: PBM Gaming: Expanding the Beachhead - GrimFinger - 04-05-2011
(04-04-2011, 11:11 PM)JonO Wrote: To me, Play by Mail wasn't about waiting 7 - 10 days to get a turn back, it wasn't about having gigantic phone-bills talking with my allies, and while it certainly was about cranking out a newsletter for my alliance, most of what was in it was way out of date by the time it reached its readers (all 12 of them.)
I agree, that play by mail wasn't about high phone bills and waiting a week or more to receive turn results back, afters ending turn orders in.
(04-04-2011, 11:11 PM)JonO Wrote: It was about role-playing - notice how much role-playing you and Ix are doing with a game that really doesn't offer that much support for it. It was about working out strategies to accomplish goals that either I created for myself and with my friends or that the game created for me or us - i.e. it was about winning.
Ixnay is merely an aside, to why I started that [url=
(04-04-2011, 11:11 PM)JonO Wrote: ]Lamentations of the Damned[/url] thread, elsewhere on this site. It's actually a feedback thread for the game's moderator, Casey.
[quote='JonO' pid='734' dateline='1301958686']These days, I pay my bills on line, I buy most non foodstuffs/clothing on-line, I read entire books on line, and watch movies on line. I WM two non-gaming community websites and participate in three or four more regularly. Almost all of my personal communication with family and friends is by email. Hell, I file my taxes on line. I cannot imagine a circumstance whereby I would want to play by mail when I don't even pay by mail anymore.
I file our taxes, online. I do very little in the way of shopping, online - or offline, for that matter.
(04-04-2011, 11:11 PM)JonO Wrote: What PBMs that survived the avalanche of internet gaming did so by, at the least, becoming primarily PBeM, and or becoming PBW like BSE-Phoenix. I don't see that becoming less true as the price of mailing continues to soar, the postal service continues to slow down, and the ubiquity of the internet and internet communication becomes greater.
Hyborian War is unlikely to change its stripes, and will likely remain a postal game, due to licensing restrictions, I suspect.
I think that the postal medium, even today, can still be a viable medium for gaming, the current pricing structure considered. To me, what it boils down to is entertainment. There's no postage to send an e-mail or a file attachment. That's hard to be, and impossible for the postal service to beat. But, the original play by mail industry came into existence with technology that is Neanderthal, by today's standards. Certainly, the technology exists for a new era in postal gaming to take root - and to flourish. Technology can revisit the use of the postal medium for entertainment purposes.
(04-04-2011, 11:11 PM)JonO Wrote: 25 years ago, I suspect that you would have started a magazine like David Webber or Nicky Palmer did. Instead you started a website and are extremely interested in its search engine rankings, because you know that the Internet is the way people communicate these days.
I subscribed to Paper Mayhem, David Webber's magazine, for a short while, a very long time ago. So, I was around. I had also intended to try and go forward with a PDF format PBM magazine, and perhaps do a limited run of print copies of it using print on demand publishing.
My interest, of late, in the search engine rankings is a narrow one. If i wanted to improve this site's ranking with search engines, then I would simply drop the portal page (the home page of the site), and replace it with an HTML page.
I very much agree that people communicate with the Internet, these days. If I sent people a greeting card through the postal service, today, though, I suspect that many of them would consider it to be special - far more special than if I sent them an e-mail.
(04-04-2011, 11:11 PM)JonO Wrote: If the concept of PBM is to make a comeback - and I sure hope it does - it will be because new designers utilize today's technology to offer gamers what appealed to gamers about PBM 25 years ago. What those games will look like may be very different. How players interact with the game and the other gamers will be different in method, but similar in content. But the fun and excitement will be pretty much what it used to be. . . I hope.
From my perspective, it isn't just the Internet versus the postal service. Considerations such as desktop publishing empowers individuals to utilize paper as a medium far more effectively than in the past. The bad economy of recent years considered, society still spends tons of money on entertainment, each year. The key, I think, is that, especially if one uses the postal medium to generate entertainment in gaming form, then one would be well served to make it special. Utilizing that approach, I think that a new era in postal gaming could dawn. Technology, after all, is very good at empowering.
I have a printer. I use it on almost a daily basis. The printer empowers me to make paper, as a medium, more convenient and useful to me. It could easily be utilized for gaming purposes, as well. Even in an e-mail game like Far Horizons: The Awakening, I still find myself using my relatively meager home office capabilities to paper-ize that e-mail game.
RE: PBM Gaming: Expanding the Beachhead - Gads - 04-05-2011
Using the postal system is dead.
We've discussed this before and I can see you are still clinging onto the past. Sure, no-one can be sure of the future, but all the evidence, trends, future projections and forecasts point to the chance of the postal systems playing a major role in gaming is non-existent.
A handful of games which still continue to use the postal system does not justify it's existence for such purposes. These games are just a drop in the ocean when compared to the PBMs of old let alone the vast array of online games of today. There are 10s if not 100s of millions of online gamers. I doubt there is even 1,000 players today playing via the postal system. I would bet it is closer to 100
History has shown that there will always be a small niche group of loyal people that refuse to move with the times. There are still fan-bases for the very first games ever to appear on the PC. It's true that they exist but its such a niche market it is extremely unlikely it will ever return to the heights that they reached back in the 80s.
I'm not saying there is anything wrong with that, in many ways I think it is great, but realize it is a minority interest.
You need to face the fact that the majority of the population look forward and embrace new technologies and advancements. It is in the human makeup.
But Grim, I am sure you are going to come back with a string of justifications of why postal systems still have a part to play in gaming. I agree it does, but it is something like 0.00000001% of the gaming market and declining.
I might have to put you in the same category as those that forecast the end of the world in 2012. Sure I don't know, maybe they are right, but my gut instinct tells me they are crazy. The return of postal gaming is just as nuts!!
The future is online, just as your website is also online.
(04-05-2011, 04:52 AM)GrimFinger Wrote:(04-05-2011, 04:17 AM)Gads Wrote: Nice post JonO
For my money, you are 100% on the mark. It's nice to talk about the past from time to time, but surely it is time to accept the Internet has replaced the postal system and lets start talking about the exciting times ahead of us.
I'm certainly not aware that anything precludes discussions of either the Internet and its capabilities for acting as a conduit or medium for gaming, or the exciting times ahead of you, Sean.
I would not agree, however, that the Internet has replaced the postal system. If that were the case, then I could get rid of my mailbox at the end of my front yard. The Internet and the postal service co-exist, side by side. I will likely be long dead and buried, before the postal service fades into non-existence. Furthermore, de-monopolizing the postal service could well re-energize it. Until and if that happens, we simply won't know, for sure. The Internet isn't going away, to be certain, but neither is the postal service, anytime soon.
RE: PBM Gaming: Expanding the Beachhead - GrimFinger - 04-05-2011
(04-05-2011, 07:18 AM)Gads Wrote: Using the postal system is dead.
Perhaps for you, it is, but not for everyone. We certainly still receive plenty of bills in the mail, here. Plus, it's how my Hyborian War turns arrive to me for Hyborian War game # HW-854. If using the postal system were dead, then how do those turn results arrive in my mailbox? Magic? The Tooth Fairy?
(04-05-2011, 07:18 AM)Gads Wrote: We've discussed this before and I can see you are still clinging onto the past. Sure, no-one can be sure of the future, but all the evidence, trends, future projections and forecasts point to the chance of the postal systems playing a major role in gaming is non-existent.
On a personal level, I'm not worried if the postal system plays a major role in gaming. As I stated on the site here almost three months ago. "I'm not here to save the play by mail industry from a final death, nor am I here as a harbinger of a revival of the hobby of postal gaming."
See editorial titled: Gloom, Despair, & Agony
Where trends are concerned, there will always be trends. I don't worship trends, though. I'm not opposed to there being trends. If I were following a trend, then this website wouldn't be here.
(04-05-2011, 07:18 AM)Gads Wrote: A handful of games which still continue to use the postal system does not justify it's existence for such purposes.
The postal system exists for many purposes, and because it exists, it is a de facto medium for gaming. People love to game. They love to be entertained. They love to have fun. People tend to use all mediums for games. As trends happen, gaming naturally follows those trends. The postal system exists as a matter of law. Thus, it's there. It was only about two weeks or so ago that I last used it to receive a set of turn results for a play by mail game - one that does not offer receiving turns by e-mail in lieu of paper turn results delivered via the postal service.
(04-05-2011, 07:18 AM)Gads Wrote: These games are just a drop in the ocean when compared to the PBMs of old let alone the vast array of online games of today.
I don't disagree. But, so what? I still enjoy the hobby, and one goal that I have, if I can ever make the time in between trying to generate content for this site, is to design and create and run a play by mail game for approximately a half dozen people or so. If everyone else in the entire world wants to abandon playing games via the postal service, then that's certainly their choice.
But, once Ilkor: Dark Rising is up and running, compared to the very same number of games that you point to online, the number of players that play your game will likely be a drop in the bucket, as well. It doesn't deter you, so why should I allow it to deter me?
(04-05-2011, 07:18 AM)Gads Wrote: There are 10s if not 100s of millions of online gamers. I doubt there is even 1,000 players today playing via the postal system. I would bet it is closer to 100
Well, if we included all forms of play by postal games, including chess, there's probably several thousand, at a minimum. One hundred would certainly be far too low of a figure. There's more active Hyborian War players than that, that I am aware of, and the number of players active in that game seems to be on the rise, from what I have been able to tell over the last year or so.
(04-05-2011, 07:18 AM)Gads Wrote: History has shown that there will always be a small niche group of loyal people that refuse to move with the times.
Well, in truth, there are very few people who do not move with the times. I certainly use the Internet. I would use cable Internet or DSL to access the Internet, but both of those stop a half mile or so from where I live. So, today, I am connected at a whopping speed of 26.4K.
I've used a computer on a daily or near daily basis, ever since I purchased an Emerson 386SX 16Mhz PC compatible with 1MB of RAM.
I'm certainly not opposed to change. I wish that Hyborian War turn results would arrive via e-mail. I used technology to hand scan all pages for all 36 player kingdom set-up reports for Hyborian War, after Lee at RSI sent me a new copy of all 36 reports, for that very purpose - to provide a crisp, clear, clean copy to the game's player community.
I don't dislike benefits that technology brings to society, or to gamers. I am a big fan of many such technologies, in fact. I utilize technology to put this website online. Most people on the Internet have never visited this site, and in fact, the absolute vast majority of them will never visit it. So, I know very well what it feels like to be that proverbial drop in the bucket.
But, from the perspective of being a drop, I don't suffer from an identity crisis, nor do I suffer from a lack of self-confidence. I am quite content just being a drop, in either the online ocean or in the gaming ocean or in the postal service gaming ocean.
(04-05-2011, 07:18 AM)Gads Wrote: There are still fan-bases for the very first games ever to appear on the PC. It's true that they exist but its such a niche market it is extremely unlikely it will ever return to the heights that they reached back in the 80s.
Well, I understand what you're saying, Sean, and I can certainly appreciate where you're coming from, when you say that. But, even at its absolute height, postal gaming wasn't a humongous number of people. In this day and age, with the Internet available as a tool of empowerment and communication, achieving a body of gamers playing games via the postal service that equaled - or even exceeded - a few tens of thousands, is not something that is an inherently impossible proposition, I don't think.
Even during its heyday, I dare say that most people in the world had never even heard of play by mail gaming. I've played PBM games since 1986 or so, and if you asked my mama what they were, she wouldn't likely have a clue, just as she likely would be oblivious to the fact that I have played them on and off for a quarter of a century of her life.
I could easily envision some kid somewhere getting hit with the brainstorm idea to piddle around with playing a role playing game via the mail, maybe with a group of middle school, high school, or college friends. Maybe it might happen, just on a whim. It might even be some bullshit game that he or she tosses together overnight, and then the whole thing sprouting and blooming, from there. Then, someone else tries to match it, or one-up it. Trends start with even more humble beginnings. Granted, it might not happen. One could even say that it probably won't happen. But, the possibility is still there, nonetheless, and if it happened, I really don't think that it would be too much of a surprise, to anyone looking back on it years later in hindsight. For the very reason that technology does empower us at the individual level, and to such a widespread degree, these days, I try to keep an open mind about such things.
(04-05-2011, 07:18 AM)Gads Wrote: I'm not saying there is anything wrong with that, in many ways I think it is great, but realize it is a minority interest.
Postal gaming has always been a "minority interest," even at its apex - back when you ran Gad Games the first time around. You didn't seem to mind being in the minority then, Sean, so why should I be bothered by being in the minority, today, all these many years later? Hey, it's gaming, man. It's a form of entertainment. It may not be the latest trend. It may even seem to be a bit old fashioned - or even anachronistic. But, nonetheless, I still consider the entertainment that is derived from postal gaming to be as valid a gaming experience, as ever.
(04-05-2011, 07:18 AM)Gads Wrote: You need to face the fact that the majority of the population look forward and embrace new technologies and advancements. It is in the human makeup.
On a purely personal level, I don't utilize all new forms of technology that come along. That should not be misconstrued, however, into myself not embracing the use of such technologies by society at large.
Many things are in the human make-up. Being nostalgic is one of them. Some people deal in antiques. Some tinker with technology from the past. Technology enables us to have this discussion on this website.
(04-05-2011, 07:18 AM)Gads Wrote: But Grim, I am sure you are going to come back with a string of justifications of why postal systems still have a part to play in gaming. I agree it does, but it is something like 0.00000001% of the gaming market and declining.
I'm not trying to "justify" my interest in postal gaming, Sean. You're quite free to disregarding my perspective on things. I just find it a little humorous that we're having this discussion on a site whose very name is PlayByMail.Net.
I would certainly agree that the overall body of active or semi-active postal game players for the commercial PBM industry has declined quite a bit, over time. The PBM industry has likely lost the vast bulk of its former player base. Some commercial PBM companies continue to barely keep their head above water, if I had to speculate. None of them give me their hard numbers, so to a degree, most all of it is speculation.
But, not all commercial PBM companies are either dead or approaching death. There's certainly very few that continue to exist. RSI seems to have some talismanic immunity from the fate shared by most former commercial PBM companies that existed in previous years. The company's player bases for its respective games seem to have jelled, and the company simply benefited from technology empowering their players to find one another online, and connect with one another. I would characterize it as social networking not driven by the company.
(04-05-2011, 07:18 AM)Gads Wrote: I might have to put you in the same category as those that forecast the end of the world in 2012.
Well, I don't believe that the world will end in the year 2012, but you can stereotype me, as you see fit, Sean.
(04-05-2011, 07:18 AM)Gads Wrote: Sure I don't know, maybe they are right, but my gut instinct tells me they are crazy. The return of postal gaming is just as nuts!!
The future is online, just as your website is also online.
Indeed, my website is online, but it exist because of my interest in postal gaming. Plus, my website attracted you. It attracted a few others, as well. It's not a big website. There's not a lot here. I can even hear my own echo, here, at times. But, we're here. Maybe that's nuts, too. I don't know. If every remaining commercial PBM company goes out of business, tomorrow, I'll try to make sure that word of it makes the next PBM News Blurb.
My interest in all of this is not financial gain, Sean. Whether the commercial PBM sector collapses with a deft note of finality, or whether it rises like the proverbial Phoenix, my interest in postal gaming exists independent of the commercial PBM sector. Sure, sometimes I criticize the commercial PBM sector. Hey, there's a lot about it that warrants criticism! But, I don't hate the commercial PBM sector.
I created a PBM game years ago, to have some fun with. Fun was my underlying motive. The very same motive is what drives me with what I am doing with this site, today. For me, it's about fun. It's about a form of entertainment. Granted, it may not be everyone's cup of tea, but it still entertains me.
Now, if you want to try and strain justification out of what I am doing here, then knock yourself out, Sean. Regardless, it's good to have you join in the discussions, here.
RE: PBM Gaming: Expanding the Beachhead - JonO - 04-05-2011
(04-05-2011, 05:12 AM)GrimFinger Wrote: I file our taxes, online. I do very little in the way of shopping, online - or offline, for that matter.
According to CNET, in the last ten years access to a broadband connection at home has grown from 3% of internet users in 2000 to 66% in 2010. Once anyone gets broadband, their use of the internet as a primary means of communication becomes second nature.
(04-05-2011, 05:12 AM)GrimFinger Wrote: I think that the postal medium, even today, can still be a viable medium for gaming, the current pricing structure considered.And there is still a place for buggy-whip holders on horse-drawn buggies, but that is not the primary means of family transportation any longer.
(04-05-2011, 05:12 AM)GrimFinger Wrote: My interest, of late, in the search engine rankings is a narrow one. If i wanted to improve this site's ranking with search engines, then I would simply drop the portal page (the home page of the site), and replace it with an HTML page.
The impression that one gets from your posts is that search engine ranking are important to you as a measure of how likely you are to attract more readers.
(04-05-2011, 05:12 AM)GrimFinger Wrote: From my perspective, it isn't just the Internet versus the postal service. Considerations such as desktop publishing empowers individuals to utilize paper as a medium far more effectively than in the past. The bad economy of recent years considered, society still spends tons of money on entertainment, each year. The key, I think, is that, especially if one uses the postal medium to generate entertainment in gaming form, then one would be well served to make it special. Utilizing that approach, I think that a new era in postal gaming could dawn. Technology, after all, is very good at empowering.
There is nothing that can be done in a turn that is mailed out that cannot be done faster and more economically on the internet. The reverse, of course, is not true.
(04-05-2011, 05:12 AM)GrimFinger Wrote: I have a printer. I use it on almost a daily basis. The printer empowers me to make paper, as a medium, more convenient and useful to me. It could easily be utilized for gaming purposes, as well. Even in an e-mail game like Far Horizons: The Awakening, I still find myself using my relatively meager home office capabilities to paper-ize that e-mail game.
OK, you prefer to print out your turns. And, at least in theory you could scan your by-mail turns into your computer. Both concepts use modern technology to do something that was almost impossible to do at home in 1980.
But, assuming the point of filing a turn is to get a re-turn (as opposed to the point being to wait a couple of weeks), the rewards of the email game will be much higher.
RE: PBM Gaming: Expanding the Beachhead - GrimFinger - 04-05-2011
(04-05-2011, 01:51 PM)JonO Wrote: According to CNET, in the last ten years access to a broadband connection at home has grown from 3% of internet users in 2000 to 66% in 2010. Once anyone gets broadband, their use of the internet as a primary means of communication becomes second nature.
The Internet is a primary means of communication for me, even without broadband. I'm not opposed to broadband. In the last ten years, no progress has been made extending cable Internet further down this road. We do, however, have fiber optic cables that run right past us. But, no cable Internet. Go figure.
(04-05-2011, 01:51 PM)JonO Wrote: And there is still a place for buggy-whip holders on horse-drawn buggies, but that is not the primary means of family transportation any longer.
How many of those Internet users in that CNET study also have a postal mailbox? The analogy to a horse drawn buggy isn't a good analogy, though I do understand the comparison that you seek to make.
(04-05-2011, 01:51 PM)JonO Wrote: The impression that one gets from your posts is that search engine ranking are important to you as a measure of how likely you are to attract more readers.
Actually, when I do a web search for PBM, I very much dislike seeing so many entries for Pharmacy Based Management. If someone does a web search for PBM, looking for PBM games, then I would like for them to encounter search results that have nothing to do with Phramacy Based Management.
I don't really care about having a lot of readers. My approach to running websites is that I try to have something of interest to the site visitor that happens upon my sites. I don't orient my efforts towards trying to accrue a large user base or a large readership.
My eventual goal of running a postal game for a half dozen players doesn't require a large audience.
(04-05-2011, 01:51 PM)JonO Wrote: There is nothing that can be done in a turn that is mailed out that cannot be done faster and more economically on the internet. The reverse, of course, is not true.
I understand that. I don't think that the fact that it is a true statement necessarily expands the terms of RSI's licensing agreement, though. So, they are basically stuck with the short end of the stick, and have to make do with running Hyborian War as a postal game, if my understanding of things is accurate.
(04-05-2011, 01:51 PM)JonO Wrote: OK, you prefer to print out your turns. And, at least in theory you could scan your by-mail turns into your computer. Both concepts use modern technology to do something that was almost impossible to do at home in 1980.
But, assuming the point of filing a turn is to get a re-turn (as opposed to the point being to wait a couple of weeks), the rewards of the email game will be much higher.
The point is not to get a re-turn, per se. The point is to have fun.
I've ran Starforce Battles as a postal game, and as an e-mail game. I am not oblivious to the benefits of the online environment. I was one of the more vocal advocates pushing for Flagship magazine to be published in PDF format.
RE: PBM Gaming: Expanding the Beachhead - JonO - 04-05-2011
(04-05-2011, 01:07 PM)GrimFinger Wrote: Perhaps for you, it is, but not for everyone. We certainly still receive plenty of bills in the mail, here. Plus, it's how my Hyborian War turns arrive to me for Hyborian War game # HW-854. If using the postal system were dead, then how do those turn results arrive in my mailbox? Magic? The Tooth Fairy?
And yet, further down, you say you wish your turns were delivered by the internet. My guess is that if there was enough interest in the game, there would be a mechanism for sending and receiving turns. That there isn't suggests that RSI doesn't believe that an expenditure of time and effort would be worth it.
Bills are received by mail because it provides legal protection for the biller. There is no such reason for gaming.
(04-05-2011, 01:07 PM)GrimFinger Wrote: I could easily envision some kid somewhere getting hit with the brainstorm idea to piddle around with playing a role playing game via the mail, maybe with a group of middle school, high school, or college friends.
He'd be one hundred times more likely to conceive of it happening on line. If it was a totally human moderated game, he'd set it up via texting.
(04-05-2011, 01:07 PM)GrimFinger Wrote: Indeed, my website is online, but it exist because of my interest in postal gaming. Plus, my website attracted you. It attracted a few others, as well. It's not a big website. There's not a lot here. I can even hear my own echo, here, at times.
If you build it they will come. Patience in all things, grasshopper.
(04-05-2011, 01:07 PM)GrimFinger Wrote: But, we're here. Maybe that's nuts, too. I don't know. If every remaining commercial PBM company goes out of business, tomorrow, I'll try to make sure that word of it makes the next PBM News Blurb.
My interest in all of this is not financial gain, Sean. Whether the commercial PBM sector collapses with a deft note of finality, or whether it rises like the proverbial Phoenix, my interest in postal gaming exists independent of the commercial PBM sector. Sure, sometimes I criticize the commercial PBM sector. Hey, there's a lot about it that warrants criticism! But, I don't hate the commercial PBM sector.
The question isn't whether RSI will ever starting running a web game, or whether a kid would play by mail, by tabletop, or by web if he wanted to have a game with 1/2 dozen friends.
PBM was what it was because it did support a fairly large number of commercial games. It was the commercial companies, starting with FBI, that created the excitement, the sense of community, and the plain old fun that existed from 1985 to somewhere in the 90's. In a capitalistic society, if someone is good at designing games, he wants to be paid for it, not give them away for free.
It doesn't matter whether there are 100 or 1000 PBM players still getting turns by mail. What will keep what was great about PBM gaming alive in the 21st century is whether commercial pbw games that are neither MUDs nor MMPOLRPGs can be designed and operated in such a way as to attract more cottage-industry professionals.